Aids discrimination or snobbery?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Craigjw, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Lol.... TIm is doing such amazing job on these forums, you have no idea....

    rFactor2 is not an mainstream game, its a simulator, when you drive a racing car that is meant to be driven by professional drivers that have been driving since little kids. Its supposed to be difficult and demanding. Its supposed to be realistic. And except of the cařs settings all drivers are supposed to have the same conditions. If you cant drive a car without aids, you shoud keep trying...
    For me, no aids- cockpit view only is the only way. That is the reason why i bought rFactor, and not that.. F1 game ...
     
  2. smithaz

    smithaz Registered

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    Oh Mike I am well aware, I read this forum all the time, and I can understand his sometimes irate responses after having to deal with a lot of the drivel on here. Actually my comment was a bit of an ill thought through, knee jerk reaction, I meant no offense, PC Jobsworth was a hypothetical pedant not Tim.

    On topic; when I think of aids I think ABS and TCS, I haven't even tried some of the others as they are redundant, if you need more than ABS and TCS to drive then, well thats just beyond me. When i was first acclimatizing to rF2 I myself used ABS on low, then I started practicing without ABS in the clio and feeling the extra satisfaction from the extra challenge, it makes braking into a proper event rather than flooring the brakes and turning in, like in all other games I had tried before.
    I do drive in nose view myself though, I wonder what people's thoughts on this are, I know that if somebody is matching me for laptime and they are using cockpit view, there is no way I would be able to match it in cockpit view, would they be able to match it in nose view?
     
  3. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I do find controlling the car easier with cockpit view but it's easier to brake with nosecam imo.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I think ABS can definitely provide an advantage, because unless it's the 'old style' ABS (which was no longer default even in rF1) it works per-wheel, something you can never do with a brake pedal. Some mods apply enough weight penalty to offset it, some don't.

    TC is less clear, and depends on the mod settings. The various TC levels aren't static between cars, it's up to the mod maker to tweak those values so it's quite possible in a particular mod no level of TC gives the perfect amount - so overall compared to a skilled driver it provides no real advantage.

    As for view, I personally think 95% of the time it makes no difference. I always drive cockpit view, but I could imagine I could drive a hood/bonnet/nose view with little adjustment because it's still 'bolted' to the car. Trying to drive with a camera that moves around a little relative to the car (like the swingman view) I know from the couple of times I've tried it is very difficult for me. Without the camera rotating immediately with the car I lose one of the main feedback mechanisms for reading the car behaviour.

    The one place I think a different, higher view helps, is corners on crests. No doubt the extra visibility you get from a higher camera can be a help there. But that also comes back to my own weakness in high speed corners, so really once you know the track properly you should be able to cope with a little less visibility.

    Anyway, for camera height you can have everyone in cockpit view but with different seat adjustments - so if you want to lock cockpit view, really you need to consider having a mod that offers no seat adjustment if you want to ensure a level playing field.

    And ultimately whether it's visibility, or traffic awareness, or whatever else, people will probably just adapt to what they're using and overall it'll make little difference. I know some people can drive very well using a swingman-style camera, so probably in the end the view won't have much bearing on laptimes. People tend to try 'the other side' for a short time and make a judgment on how they compare, without realising that you don't really know what it's like until you fully adapt to it. It's probably nearly impossible to quantify a time difference accurately either way. But that won't stop the arguments ;)
     
  5. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Had friends over a few years ago, their 8 or 9 year old daughter was getting a bit bored and asked if we had video games she could play.
    Since most of my games at that time involved the rather insensitive routines of shooting people in the face I loaded up rfactor. I thought I was doing her a favour by enabling a bunch of assists but within 3 laps she demanded it to be taken off lol. baddass babe :)

    Not that she did well, or at all, constantly crashing etc. but I thought It was cool she didn't want any assist hehe.
     
  6. smbrm

    smbrm Registered

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    How can you be driving a race car simulator if it is not with cockpit view? Last time I looked, seems to me that all the real racing drivers were driving their real racing cars from the cockpit with cockpit view?

    Just wondering?
     
  7. smithaz

    smithaz Registered

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    I treat it more as a realistic racing game than a race car simulator. I play for the enjoyment of close racing online more than anything and nose view gives me the best all round vision in order to race well. With my single monitor setup the monitor is my windscreen, I think if I went to triple monitors I would definitely use cockpit view, I don't know why.
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Well here's the other side of the coin...

    Some people play a lot of less 'simmy' games, and quite often they default to a 'chase cam' or a nose view. If they still play those games, and have been for years, but also want to do some driving in rF/2, would you prefer they use a cockpit view they're not used to (and will probably keep hitting people up the rear because they're forgetting about how much car is now in front of them, or will feel completely out of whack because they're used to seeing their whole car and now all that view is blocked) or stick with what they're used to?

    Personally I'd prefer they race what they're familiar with, because that'll be safer for everyone. Sure, if they decide they want a more realistic experience and take the time to adjust to the cockpit view, good for them. Will the change affect anyone else?
     
  9. PMC

    PMC Registered

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    Camera view isn't an aid and people who force cockpit don't seem to take into consideration, as has been mentioned, if you have a good sim your monitor is the screen and you have a wheel all is missing is a roll cage around the screen and dash board.

    I can understand old skool guys using wingman but hey I really cant see how nose cam is an advantage.

    Auto clutch is a given due to hardware restrictions for some.

    The rest (aids) will slow you down simply because it wont let you push the car to the limits.

    People who think there being beaten by people using aids are just not driving well enough or just being beaten by better drivers (a hard pill to swallow).

    So back to topic yes I think some is discrimitory because I don't think it really matters and aids will help give confidence to new comers and more the better.

    Also just to add, i can understand leagues that might make some restrictions to tighten things up in an event but hey I cant see the point in general play.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2013
  10. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    Well said :) So true.

    Regarding the view used, it makes no difference on lap time if you are used to what you play with

    There are tracks tho that make cockpit with 1 screen almost impossible, and the only that comes to mind is Mills OLB and OLC. That's about it... that's the only track where I switch to nose view, because of that tricky corner at the end of the long high speed corner.

    People using 1 screen with cockpit and lower FOV should consider playing with the lookahead angle in the player.plr. The leanahead angle adds to the realism as well. Try to set it to

    Leanahead Angle="0.06140"

    and the lookahead with a value of 0.57 to 0.90 (I use 0.90). You will see an amazing difference with those settings (the leanahead wont do no good, except adds to realism, it doesnt make it better or worse)

    you should know tho, that if you go to controls settings, even if you don't change anything, upon exit, rF2, will overwrite the settings you modified in the player.plr (going over value, max of 0.2 by default, when slider is set to max).

    So you need to go back and edit the lookahead angle again. The leanahead one is fine.

    Hope you like it!

    I use those settings with FOV30, and it's awesome. I also add a seat pitch of 5 degrees.

    Give it a try if you use cockpit!
     

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