Aids discrimination or snobbery?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Craigjw, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Craigjw

    Craigjw Registered

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    Why do people choose not to join a server or take part because it has aids allowed on it.

    It's their choice if they want to use aids or not and there's a weight penalty, so using aids doesn't benefit over no aids used.

    Generally the person not using the aids is going to be faster than the person using aids, because this generally comes down to experience.

    I don't get it, we strive for choice, then people object to being offered choice.

    Just because I host a server with aids allowed, that does not make anyone who uses it any less skillful, or is it perhaps that generally people who use aids are associated with being crap or rammers? I have yet to meet a rammer who plays rFactor 2.

    so what's the crack?
     
  2. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Maybe some people prefer to race with others that have the same amount of aids enabled as they do. A level playing field if you will. Although, I'd imagine there are a few that take pleasure to look down on "noobs", there always seems to be those in these gaming communities.
     
  3. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    +100


    I don't really mind driving against drivers using aids, its the abuse of aids that bothers me. If you're doing lap after lap and you're faster then everyone else then you need to start turning off some aids and dealing with conditions like the rest of us. If you're a 'n00b' then feel free to use aids. I'd rather have slower 'n00bs' in a race with aids on then to have them feel discouraged and not race at all.
     
  4. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    I'm all for options and no problems anyone wanting to use anything.

    But I agree with Woodee, for me its about the challenges simracing provide in equal circumstances.

    I had ignored public racing for many years (league racing) until rf2Beta came out, if I wanted to race online it had to be on public servers. And tbh, it annoyed the crap out of me learning after an our or so of practise, trying to get faster, comparing times, trying even harder, to learn all sorts of aids where allowed.

    This of course was my fault. I should have checked right away rather then stumbling onto it by chance. And thats probably why I got so annoyed with it, a waste of my time because I am not interested in racing under such conditions. even when I know on forehand.


    I'm not sure if I agree on which one is faster though. the difference in skill and experience is too broad. You can be fast with or without, even faster when skilled+aids or lucky without aids. we simply don't know, especially on a public server.
    I think that's maybe the biggest issue, people don't know, so they assume the worse. everyone faster then them......for sure....etc.
    And perhaps rightfully so, if someone is faster was it because...or because....so the challenge of simracing is becoming a tad vague and perhaps unrealistic.

    Dunno about discrimination but snobbery comes into play at times I think. some people take this thing a bit too seriously sometimes and look down on others.
    With +aids in the server-title you avoid the purist coming in you also draw in those whom are looking for it.
    A clear message should do the trick?
     
  5. ccjcc81

    ccjcc81 Registered

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    I didn't know rF2 imposes a weight penalty to compensate for the use of aids. Having said that, I am one of those that would avoid servers that allow aids. Before I started simming, I played GT and Forza, and it was so very frustrating to be beaten by people who obviously had a bunch of aids on. It wasn't because I feel any "snobbery" towards anyone who uses aids. Likewise, I don't think I'm a better racer. The reason why it's frustrating is because it takes time and effort to learn to drive a sim car without aids, and that time and effort is wasted if I get online and get smeared by a bunch of people who have them on.
     
  6. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    I play rF2 to achieve as much realism as i can afford with my rig. I dont even understand how can so many people use aids, why are they playing rF2 then? The only aid that makes sence to me is clutch, and that only for people who cannot afford/ dont want to spend so much on pedals with clutch.
    As said above, if one driver has aids, and second one does not, the conditions are not the same, the race stops beign fair
     
  7. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    It all comes down to personal choices... My opinions on the matter is live and let live :)

    I wouldn't mind racing people with aids, simply because I know I will be faster anyway. I tried various amount of aids recently (for the first time, I started without any), to try to beat minibull's laptime on silverstone using Formula ISI, and I just couldn't... with heavy setuping, I reached mid 1:36, and he's at 1:32... (guess I can make it to 1:35.. but 1:32, I really have no idea... my downforce is already near absolute minimum... 6.5 front, 30 rear... reaching top speed of around 330kph)

    I know he doesn't use aids, but I was curious to see if I was going to be faster with them on.

    And to my surprise, I was slower the more I added aids. With all of them enabled, without steering, I was a few seconds slower, don't think I could get under 1:40... I didn't tried much when I saw how bad they were.

    I haven't got much experience online with rF2, but the thing that is likely to come with the people using aids, is they are probably still beginning, and I would probably get a tighter race with the AI in that case.

    While I wouldn't mind hotlapping with people of all skills, I'm sure I'd like to race with people that are about the same (with some better, so I can learn and improve).

    But the argument of people being faster with aids on in rF2 doesn't stand imo... it may be true in other games, but not rF2, give them a try and see :)
     
  8. coops

    coops Banned

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    if the car has them use them if not don't its a SIM not an ARCADE game, and i want to race the car like real life
     
  9. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    I would rather join a server with realistic settings, but we don't have the option of picking and choosing servers with certain settings at this present time.. due to the fact that there just aren't a whole lot out there. As stated above, it is a choice.. I race rFactor for fun, it is a inexpensive way to get a thrill without the real life consequences/pain and empty pocket book.
     
  10. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Didn't know this. How can you see added weight?

    +1

    There are programs like simresults.net for results where you can also check what aids everyone used. I don't see why it's such a big problem when the use of aids is not kept secret.

    Because I know that even with aids on rf2 feels much more realistic than any arcade game (I don't use aids anymore if you wondering). I started off with ferrari gt experience wheel. Was low budget wheel: 180 degree steering rotation and crap pedals, no way I could do without aids with that wheel as a rookie but I wasn't rammer and raced clean. Didn't brag if I succeeded though.

    If you are running fun races for example, does it really have to be fair or is the fun the main point?

    Exactly my experience.

     
  11. LowRider

    LowRider Registered

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    Now thats funny, but seems to be a unwriten rule in rf.
    Most servers allows auto clutch, because some people can't or won't spend money in their controllers.
    How about people that use aids like autoshift because they are healthwise restricted and have no other choice, neither not for all the money in the world.
    I know at least about two online friends, that can't find servers just of this strange mindset. And above all no one would seriously argue that autoshift is an advantage and makes you faster.
     
  12. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Tell your friends they can come to my server.
     
  13. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    What makes you think low aero is faster at Silverstone? I did the opposite and best time was 1:32,xxx. Wasn't perfect lap though and I wasn't hot lapping - it was practice and then qualify for a race. (I hate hotlapping BTW but sometimes it's good for practice to become faster)
     
  14. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Heh lowrider, yes in such cases of course aids are something differend... I find this kinda obivous
     
  15. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Yeah, but people don't usually ask why server has aids allowed, just own assumptions and straight disconnect :p
     
  16. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Well i personally dont even look at servers settings, for me, it only matters what cars do they race with, on which track, and then i check wheters its still in practise/qualy or if they are racing already.
    Again as said above, there isnt so rich selection of servers to be picky in such extention
     
  17. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    I dont really care, hotlap or full tank runs are both good for practice. I am by no means quick btw. This KeiKei fullah...;)
    Quickest lap I've seen is something like a 1:31.2xx, something like that.
    The other issue I have always had with F1 is just how bloody fast they are, takes a bit to adapt after driving something like the Skippys XD
     
  18. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    Level of predictability goes down as the differentiality of aids goes up...
     
  19. G.Bird

    G.Bird Registered

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    From personal experience and racing with Guy's that use full
    Aids it always turns in to a bumper car race and now refuse
    to race with guy's that use them point blank.
    The Guy's that dont use them seem to have
    a different mind set most probably because they have learnt
    the car track and put the hours in to actually learn
    to drive the game.
    With Aids on you learn nothing it's a Sim not Arcade.

    Clutch is on.
    No clutch pedal grrrrr.

    No offence ment.
     
  20. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    This sort of thing drives me nuts. I hear lots of people say that driving aids are not realistic, they shouldn't be allowed etc.... but the car they are driving has aids enabled IRL. Then these same people use the #1 driving aid of them all- a non-cockpit view. Faster drivers can turn assists off and they will still be faster (that weight penalty is big with certain cars)- it's never been proven that anyone is faster with assists on. But that cockpit view has been proven time & again to be slower than other views. The fastest drivers usually use hood view.

    IMHO a server that enables the same assists the real cars have available and forces cockpit view are the only real sim servers.
     

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