AI Limiter seems to work in reverse

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Beaner, Apr 24, 2023.

  1. Beaner

    Beaner Registered

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    After doing some AI races and testing, it seems that the rF2 AI Limiter works exactly the opposite of how it's described.

    The menu says "setting a higher AI limiter will decrease the performance difference between AI drivers, leading to a more closely bunched up AI field".

    Doing a 20 min race, Ai strength at 102, when you run with
    AI Limiter = 1, the average gap between pos1 and pos20 is around 54 seconds
    AI Limter = 100, the average gap between pos1 and pos20 is around 84 seconds

    So it's not a huge difference, but it's the opposite of what you'd expect...
     
  2. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

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    Yeah... I though the exact same thing when I read the description...

    'isn't it the supposed to be the opposite... of how it use to be...' did he said to himself, wondering...
     
  3. DanRZ

    DanRZ Registered

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    I'm pretty sure the desciption text has changed recently ... or not :confused:

    Extract of player.json :

    "AI Limiter#":"Range: 0.0 (no limiting) - 1.0 (limiting used to make racing closer but also make more driver differences on flat-out tracks)",

    > Still a bit ambiguous, "closer but more difference" ... o_O
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    This parameter has always caused confusion, and has been discussed a number of times accordingly. I think this description by mschreiner is good, and hopefully correct:

    upload_2023-4-25_7-51-21.png


    So, two important points I'd say:
    1. It sets the limit of variance, meaning higher 'limiter' gives more variance - which feels backward
    2. The limit is per AI driver. Underlying differences in AI mean the effect on the field spread could go either way (so it's not an "All AI" limiter, it's limiting each AI variation and that will have a secondary impact on field spread)
     
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  5. Beaner

    Beaner Registered

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    Where is that MinRacingSkill setting? I'd love to adjust that to prevent a driver in the leading pack suddenly having back marker pace.

    Can't see it in player.JSON

    Thanks!
     
  6. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    One thing to remember about any rF2 setting, be it in the Player.json or even the .rcd files. If a setting, like the OP used, is outside the defined range, rF2 either then ignores that value or falls back to a default.
     
  7. sampopel

    sampopel Registered

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    I'm still unclear on what different values of AI Limiter > 0 does. Does a higher value mean an increased frequency of each AI driver hitting their MinRacingSkill, or simply mean their racing skill is more likely to fall as low as MinRacingSkill, or something else?

    eg. what would be the difference between setting AI Limiter to 0.2 compared to setting it to 0.8.
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Those are AI parameters, I think you'd need to edit .rcd files to change those. Searching this forum for terms like minracingskill (and the others) will often turn up useful info, such as this: https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rcd-talent-file.52996/#post-1104535

    (these parameters are set per AI driver, though as noted in that post you need to be careful to exclude/remove the generic rF2 drivers you haven't customised)

    That's a good question, don't know if I've seen the answer. Perhaps searching for those terms as above will uncover something. Based on what mschreiner said I would guess that it changes the frequency with which they drop to their lowest speed, simply because he hasn't indicated any other factors in the 'low speed' they'll vary to. Note the above post regarding the value, with some apparent agreement that very low values (0.0 - 0.05) are best.
     
  9. TheDog6

    TheDog6 Registered

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    I'm not sure of anything anymore in Rf2wise, but I thought some time ago that also the parameter named “ai range” or so in the aiw file of the track has influence in the spread, maybe the track or tracks tried did have some non default ai range value.
     
  10. Rujasu

    Rujasu Registered

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    Basically when you start a race, every driver rolls a random skill value between their maximum and minimum skill, the bounds determined by their stats like so:
    Code:
    Upper bound = Speed * Difficulty
    Lower bound = Upper bound * (1 - (1 - MinRacingSkill) * Limiter)
    
    Edit92345: Final cleanup for a sensible equation
    
    Desmos version, a = skill, b = MinRacingSkill, c = limiter, d = difficulty
    So at 0 limiter, a driver's skill is set by their Speed stat (and general difficulty) exclusively. At 1 limiter (that is, 100%), their skill is somewhere between their Speed stat and Speed*MinRacingSkill, for example at 98 speed and 96 MinRacingSkill, the slowest they could drive is (0.98 * 0.96) = 0.94, so a range of skill of 94-98.
    Lowering the limiter narrows the possible skill difference.

    Their speed might also drift between the two extremes during a race, but I haven't been able to prove it experimentally.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2023
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  11. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    This is interesting, I'd never fully understood this setting. The way I read the meaning of this setting is that it's the frequency at which the AI drivers make mistakes.
     
  12. Forcer77

    Forcer77 Registered

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    For my opinion AILimiter is useless and helpless parameter and would be better being removed by devs. Because it creats mess. In theory it should make some variance and make racing with AI less predictable but in reality it makes confusion. When I raised limiter up to 0.10-0.20 then I noticed that my fast AI drivers (who have high "speed" values in talent files) got slower in race than in qualify but my slow AI drivers suddenly got some boost and drove faster the race than in qualify, they were still not faster than top AI drivers but got closer to them in race pace. When I raised Limiter even more then AI racing became more mess and confusion. It seems that limiter makes AI drivers more packed and bunched and less dependent on their talent file's "Speed" settings. MinRacingSkill and Composure from talent files linked to Limiter don't work properly or as I think they should work. So it would be better if devs use such parameters as MinRacingSkill, Composure, AIMistake regardless to AILimiter setting (based only on AI talent files *.rcd)...and AI limiter could be removed from the game completely. It would be absolutely fine
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023

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