AI behavior during Safety Car phase

Christopher Elliott said:
Can you please refrain from comments like that, you seem to try and get a in a jab in almost every thread, and you really know better by now.
We're looking at a variety of issues all the time, priority is based on multiple factors. Thanks for bumping this @The Iron Wolf , we will discuss it next week.
Click to expand...

You can't blame him though and others. From the point of view from people affected by this bug it certainly comes across this way. If you introduce bugs and it takes months and months to fix them you are bound to have disgruntled customers. I'm not trying to have a dig, and I'm not going to bother to "complain" about the wet weather bug anymore, but I'm just saying.
 
The Iron Wolf said:
Funny you mention Robocat's issue, it is when I saw that issue acknowledged on Discord, I got inspired to push for this one once again.
While it is a bit offtopic, interesting thing is that the rain issue seems to be somehow content related. I had perfect wet race with URD T5 Hockenhieim yesterday. Nonetheless, I agree with you it is major issue - nr.2 on my personal list :) Sounds like both are noticed and will be tracked - awesome!
Click to expand...

That is interesting. I tested the Formula 3.5 ages ago and they worked fine too. The issue definitely happens with the Formula ISI cars though. Even the DESFV10 cars that are based off the former.
 
RoboCAT10 said:
You can't blame him though and others. From the point of view from people affected by this bug it certainly comes across this way. If you introduce bugs and it takes months and months to fix them you are bound to have disgruntled customers. I'm not trying to have a dig, and I'm not going to bother to "complain" about the wet weather bug anymore, but I'm just saying.
Click to expand...
I still think appropriate and respectful tone approaching developers is far more productive, remember - they're people. In the end, respect, boundaries and constructive feedback will get everyone further.

When I am getting frustrated about my bugs (the ones that most important to me) not getting fixed, I look around and check - is there better alternative to enjoy? No? So stay patient and respectful :)
 
This is not an official content, however I suspect this is still interesting case to debug, understand and document. It is either the code bug exposed by a track, or authoring issue that is probably good to understand. After all, rF2 is an open content platform.

Senormen's latest Donington Park/National layout full BTCC grid 32 vehicles (NGTC mod + ISI Civic). FCY phase never finishes, 100% repro. SC passes all the cars. One unusual thing is very short pit lane and location of finish/start line, I wonder if it messes up in game FCY logic.
 
Last edited:
There are SC issues at Suzuka with the new GT3 cars too.

Usually the first place AI car will follow the SC, but the second place car drives at a slower pace, often braking at weird intervals, causing a dangerous accordion effect behind. By the time the green flag comes out, the leader is usually 15-20 seconds ahead.

While I'm not sure if this is 100% reproducible, it's happened in the 3 out of 3 SC periods I've experienced at this track since the release of the GT3s. This issue isn't new though, there's been weird SC ordering issues since ISI introduced Stock Car rules.

There's one further AI quirk that is quite dangerous. When the full course yellow comes out, they all race back to the start-line at full speed, which is fine. The danger occurs when they cross the start-line and brake as hard as possible, instead of easing of the accelerator and gently coasting down to a safe speed.
 
marvelharvey said:
There are SC issues at Suzuka with the new GT3 cars too.
There's one further AI quirk that is quite dangerous. When the full course yellow comes out, they all race back to the start-line at full speed, which is fine. The danger occurs when they cross the start-line and brake as hard as possible, instead of easing of the accelerator and gently coasting down to a safe speed.
Click to expand...

I've had this at Suzuka and a lot of other tracks. I think it's a track issue since I've done races at Donnington, Queensland and Adelaide and in the latter two the cars have behaved well under the safety car.

At Donnington and Suzuka for instance, they'll drive really quickly, slam on the brakes, speed back up, slam on the brakes and nobody actually catches up to the safety car. Or: The first five or six will and the rest never bother to catch up.
 
AMillward said:
At Donnington and Suzuka for instance, they'll drive really quickly, slam on the brakes, speed back up, slam on the brakes and nobody actually catches up to the safety car. Or: The first five or six will and the rest never bother to catch up.
Click to expand...
This happens at Sao Paulo too. I had races with FISI 2012, Marussia and F1RFT 2013 and can't remember exactly which of these races went into full course yellow but when it did happen AI was erratic as you described.
Me + 12 AI opponents (100%, 25% aggression).
 
Anyone could put some light on this? We are almost 2020 and I'm getting the same trouble as we can read in 2017 reports.
AIs are driving like drunks during Full-Course-Yellow. And, when the SC is triggered (much before the actual Safety Cars comes out of the pit) all drivers do a full brake stop causing collisions.

FCY are OK at rF2 release (2013, for god sake) and after 7 years we are going backwards on this regard.
 
All that you describe was broken when S397 first released a Nascar plugin upgrade, combined with their first changes to the main program.
However, they have repeatedly stated, and we have repeatedly repeated for them, that AI/offline issues will only be addressed AFTER the release of the new UI and a fully sorted Online Competition system.
The work around is to turn off full course yellows, use only standing starts, and only enforce the black flag. (or join an online league)
That is as much 'light' as you are going to get.
 
This is unacceptable in any way you can imagine, at least for who is intending to be a professional developer with commercial purposes.

If you introduce a bug you must to roll back to the previous version, this is rule zero of any company that make Software. And if you have a minimal control of the routines and variables that you're coding you have to know exactly what you changed for produce the error. And, if there's people who likes to run in circles in any boring oval that collect some benefit from the crippled version, at least provide an alternative non-bugged version of the same software in Steam betas drop list for the rest of customers.

I think this sort of business administration explains very well the Steam stats we can see.

Edit > In addition to the 2015 information, maybe the criticism is more suitable to ISI than S397 to be polite. But still, it's been a quite long time with a gross bug.

davehenrie said:
All that you describe was broken when S397 first released a Nascar plugin upgrade, combined with their first changes to the main program.
However, they have repeatedly stated, and we have repeatedly repeated for them, that AI/offline issues will only be addressed AFTER the release of the new UI and a fully sorted Online Competition system.
The work around is to turn off full course yellows, use only standing starts, and only enforce the black flag. (or join an online league)
That is as much 'light' as you are going to get.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
davehenrie said:
The work around is to turn off full course yellows, use only standing starts, and only enforce the black flag.
Click to expand...

I've not had any issues with Rolling Starts (mainly Fast Rolling) on official tracks, only tracks where the track maker hasn't set them up properly (no fault of S397s) had there been an issue.
 
Unfortunately this not goes with the FCY, it's track unrelated, which is quite stupid, it would be enough all AI catch up the SC and then maintain a constant speed but it looks like they're are more interested in shove the exciting e-sports "the faster nerd of the world" (who cares? I want to race myself) down us throat than fix basic broken game items.
MarcG said:
I've not had any issues with Rolling Starts (mainly Fast Rolling) on official tracks, only tracks where the track maker hasn't set them up properly (no fault of S397s) had there been an issue.
Click to expand...
 
ECAR_Tracks said:
... but it looks like they're are more interested in shove the exciting e-sports "the faster nerd of the world" (who cares? I want to race myself)
Click to expand...

How is that any different from what Kunos are doing? Or Sector3? whether you like it or not eSports is a multi billion dollar industry, a game Dev in this genre would be stupid to ignore it and at the end of the day S397 are making this for everyone not just you, pull your head out the sand and realise there's more to sim racing than just your needs.
 
MarcG said:
How is that any different from what Kunos are doing? Or Sector3? whether you like it or not eSports is a multi billion dollar industry, a game Dev in this genre would be stupid to ignore it and at the end of the day S397 are making this for everyone not just you, pull your head out the sand and realise there's more to sim racing than just your needs.
Click to expand...

"Multi billion" lol... Racing simulation is not World of Warcraft, League of Legends or Counter Strike. It's a 0,00001% of this market.

Not even F1 is a multi-billion industry. E-sports are not even a "sport" at first place. People are struggling and bored watching Vettel, Verstappen and Hamilton racing in real circuits with most tech cars in world and millionaire organization, let alone to see random unemployed nerds playing videogame.

Have a look at Racedepartment threads about their "SRO Racing Series", it's a desert. The pools opened about e-sports in racing sims is 90% "I don't care at all" results.

Unrelated... You don't need to be S397 lawyer 24/7, they are big boy already and they can defend themselves.
 
Last edited:
Is it just me or am I the only one that just can't wait to get this ui ot of the way so they can concentrate on the actual issues in the game..

Maybe doing the ui last would of been better.
 
ECAR_Tracks said:
"Multi billion" lol... Racing simulation is not World of Warcraft, League of Legends or Counter Strike. It's a 0,00001% of this market.

Not even F1 is a multi-billion industry. E-sports are not even a "sport" at first place. People are struggling and bored watching Vettel, Verstappen and Hamilton racing in real circuits with most tech cars in world and millionaire organization, let alone to see random unemployed nerds playing videogame.

Have a look at Racedepartment threads about their "SRO Racing Series", it's a desert. The pools opened about e-sports in racing sims is 90% "I don't care at all" results.

Unrelated... You don't need to be S397 lawyer 24/7, they are big boy already and they can defend themselves.
Click to expand...

I'm just stating facts, not defending any dev nor finding any excuse to have a meaningless pop at them.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-v...to-top-1-billion-in-2019-report-idUKKCN1Q11XY
 
MarcG said:
I'm just stating facts, not defending any dev nor finding any excuse to have a meaningless pop at them.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-v...to-top-1-billion-in-2019-report-idUKKCN1Q11XY
Click to expand...
Don't take me wrong I simpathize with you and your posts overall but sometimes you tend to be a bit biased seeing the rf2 development through sort of pink glasses.

We need to be demanding to developers don't think is everything OK. IMHO their priorities don't match the customers majority but maybe they have some surveys that I don't.
 
ECAR_Tracks said:
Don't take me wrong I simpathize with you and your posts overall but sometimes you tend to be a bit biased seeing the rf2 development through sort of pink glasses.

We need to be demanding to developers don't think is everything OK. IMHO their priorities don't match the customers majority but maybe they have some surveys that I don't.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you're on about in the first paragraph, we've gone from eSports to picking holes in my posts(!), well if you knew anything you'd know I am very vocal about issues with RF2...perhaps not in the Publics eyes as you see it but trust me I make my own feelings known to S397 in the appropriate places and that place is not in this Public Forum ;)

As for "demanding" no, sorry, no one should be demanding anything. By all means make your points constructively but saying you don't like eSports and that they shouldn't focus on it isn't gonna do anything. The Devs of all the Sims involved in eSports know which direction it's taking, it's perhaps hard to perceive from the outside as Users, if it wasn't worth it then Kunos, S3, S397 etc would not be wasting their time on it...but they are so there must be something in it whether you like it or not.

...and FYI, I see the good in all Sims, not just RF2 :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top