AI At ISI Brianza Tracks

[tjc]

Guys...

I`m wondering if anyone knows of any new/edited AIW files for ISI Brianza v2.04.

The AI cannot leave the pits without crashing which makes practice and qually sessions impossible to run. I`ve tried altering AI strength and AI aggression but it`s done nothing.

I`ve posted on the rF2 Discord and @Devin replied:

"This issue is triggered by a paddock path joining a pit path right in the middle of a corner. Makes AI think they're already on the pit path when they get close, and that causes them to think they're going in a straight line and have to accelerate. Should be easily fixed by extending the paddock path to get around the full corner before merging with the pit path"

Although I`ve been watching some AIW creation videos on YT I think this is still a bit beyond me... so far.

So, does anyone know if there are any new/edited AIW files for the above track?

tj

 

[redapg]

@tjc Can it be, that these Tracks don't have a Speed Limit in the Pitlane?
If that is the Case, create an Update rfcmp and add 2 Lines into the Track *.gdb Files and set the Speed to 60 KpH.
RacePitKPH = 60.0
NormalPitKPH = 60.0
That should cure the Problem, i guess.

 

[tjc]

@redapg Thanks for the reply. I just checked and on the few occasions the AI can actually leave the pits with little damage there does seem to be a pit lane speed limit of about 60mph.

If you wouldn`t mind, could you try Brianza and see if the AI behave like this for you? If not, no problem.

They really do some crazy things...

This was my car being driven by the AI and he actually turned left instead of right when "trying" to leave the pits.


Do you still think it may be the same problem as you mentioned in your post?

 

[woochoo]

tl;dr
issue seemed to start with game AI system update a few years ago (at least for Longford and Le Grand Circuit)
lowering the Normal Pit speed limit (prac/quali) helped a bit but caused other issues
the old zig-zag path seems to help
haven't tested a longer pit extension path
-------------
This problem popped up for me at Le Grand Circuit and Longford a few years ago, i think after the game's AI system was update. They AI handled the sharp turn from paddock onto pit road quite well in the early years of rF2. Back in rF1 the solution was usually to add some zig-zag to the paddock path (pit extension) to spook the AI into slowing down.

The same game AI update might also have related to the AI attempting to pit without slowing down enough (then overshooting and wiping themselves out on the pit wall at slightly reduced speed), which they used to manage fine even when the race pit speed limit was up to 370-460kph. I tried lowering that way down to 100kph and it didn't help at all. Checked (several times) that Special Slowdown was marked, and also tried putting it earlier, none of which helped in a brand fresh aiw.

So, today for Le Grand Circuit I've tried lowering the "Normal" pit speed limit, which had some benefit, but also downsides.
Reducing the "normal" (not race) pit speed from 460kph to 10kph did stop them crashing into the paddock wall, but also they were going 10kph on pit road.

RacePitKPH = 460
NormalPitKPH = 10

It helped the cars to pit properly during practice and race, rather than going near full speed into the pit wall. In the race they still operated up to the race pit speed limit of 460kph (obviously not that fast, it's just representing that there is no speed limit), but were able to slow down in time for their box, and also speed up at max rate when leaving their box.

But Normal 80kph limit (not race limit, still 460) is too fast and they moderately crash in the paddock again, but they do pit ok during the race (they leave the pits above 80 but are pretty slow to speed up).
Normal 60kph still has some mild bumping of the wall at the paddock exit, but again the exiting of the pits is quite slow.

So, I've tried the old paddock path zig-zag, and with extreme zig-zagging it seems to have worked (with both Race and Normal speed limits at 460). The zig-zag needs to extend a long way before the corner because the cars do indeed seem to detect the main pit path long before the turn and actively speed up. So extra zig-zagging earlier dampened down that impulse enough.

I'm fairly unwilling to do a new AIW at the moment to use a longer pit extension that goes farther along the main pit path, because i've just made a fresh one, and it's not a fun task at LGC.

pic shows the red/yellow car, which would ordinarily smash the paddock wall.
It has come from between the other red cars in the right of the pic, and has enough time to build speed for the wall.

Zig-zagging was also added to the "back road" of the paddock path, because cars heading to the right on the earlier part of the parth wouldn't slow down for the double-left onto the front road of the paddock path. They would just slide on at high speed, through the clock tower (no coll) and into the wall in front of the medical building. Now with just mild zig-zagging added to that road they take the double-left turn at the right end of the paddock absolutely without issue. That same amount of zig-zag didn't seem to be enough on the front road to stop the red cars from slowing down for the turn onto the circuit

 

[redapg]

@redapg Thanks for the reply. I just checked and on the few occasions the AI can actually leave the pits with little damage there does seem to be a pit lane speed limit of about 60mph.

If you wouldn`t mind, could you try Brianza and see if the AI behave like this for you? If not, no problem.

They really do some crazy things...

View attachment 56723

View attachment 56724

This was my car being driven by the AI and he actually turned left instead of right (second screen) when "trying" to leave the pits.



Do you still think it may be the same problem as you mentioned in your post?

One Problem is, that the Pit Extension Path is a bit too short.
The Car that has the Garage 1 (maybe 2 too) has no Orientation due to that.

And it also depends on the Cars Speed and Physics.
I have taken my F3 DevMode/AIW-Editing Car with raised Grip and with that and a "Normal" Speed Limit of 30 KpH, everything works fine (except of from Garage 1, as mentioned above).
And because the Cars have to make a sharp U-Turn to enter the main Pit Path, it also depends on the Steer Lock of the Cars.

If you want, i can create an Update rfcmp, that you can test if it works with the Cars that you use.

 

[tjc]

@woochoo Yes... it may have something to do with the update you mention as I don`t remember the AI having these issues before. Well, mostly they seemed to behave quite well anyway. I`ve been away from sim racing for a while tbf though. They do seem to have a few problems at Longford but as I say, I don`t remember that being the case before.

 

[tjc]

One Problem is, that the Pit Extension Path is a bit too short.
The Car that has the Garage 1 (maybe 2 too) has no Orientation due to that.

And it also depends on the Cars Speed and Physics.
I have taken my F3 DevMode/AIW-Editing Car with raised Grip and with that and a "Normal" Speed Limit of 30 KpH, everything works fine (except of from Garage 1, as mentioned above).
And because the Cars have to make a sharp U-Turn to enter the main Pit Path, it also depends on the Steer Lock of the Cars.

If you want, i can create an Update rfcmp, that you can test if it works with the Cars that you use.

Yes, I`d very much appreciate that @redapg

Many thanks.

So... does that mean that the car that has Garage 1 will always have issues leaving the pits?

Forgive my ignorance. Total noob when it comes to this stuff.

 

[redapg]

Yes, I`d very much appreciate that @redapg

Many thanks.

So... does that mean that the car that has Garage 1 will always have issues leaving the pits?

Forgive my ignorance. Total noob when it comes to this stuff.

Yes, Cars in Garage 1 and probably Garage 2 too will have that Problem at the original Track.
In my Update i did remove the Garages 1 and 2 and restructured all other Garages.
And the "Normal" Speed Limit is set to 30 KpH.

The Update rfcmp is only for the 1966 Layout and appears as Brianza 2.04Pitfix in the Menu.
Install it with the in Game Content Manager.
Download: NEW LINK 5 Posts below

And please report if it works with your Cars.

 

[tjc]

Yes, Cars in Garage 1 and probably Garage 2 too will have that Problem at the original Track.
In my Update i did remove the Garages 1 and 2 and restructured all other Garages.
And the "Normal" Speed Limit is set to 30 KpH.

The Update rfcmp is only for the 1966 Layout and appears as Brianza 2.04Pitfix in the Menu.
Install it with the in Game Content Manager.
Download: https://race-setups.lima-city.de/rF2/Brianza1966_v2.04Pitfix.rfcmp

And please report if it works with your Cars.

Many thanks for this @redapg

I`ll report back as to how things are working later today sometime.

 

[tjc]

Happy to report that your update works perfectly.

The AI still bump the corner of the wall when turning onto the actual pit lane but I`m not sure if that`s something you adjusted or not tbh.

Anyway, they leave the pits without crashing and this makes the practice/qually sessions playable now.

Thanks again.

tj

 

[tjc]

Actually it`s only the 60`s F1 Eve`s and Sparks that bump the wall.

The Eve and Spark F2`s and F3`s don`t. Smaller cars I guess.

 

[redapg]

Actually it`s only the 60`s F1 Eve`s and Sparks that bump the wall.

The Eve and Spark F2`s and F3`s don`t. Smaller cars I guess.

I will check that.
Maybe tightening the Corridor a little bit at that Point will help.

 

[redapg]

Here is the modified rfcmp, it's Version 2.04a and F1 Eve and Spark should be OK now.
Before you install it, uninstall the former Version and delete the former rfcmp File.
Download: https://race-setups.lima-city.de/rF2/Brianza1966_v2.04aPitfix.rfcmp

 

[tjc]

That works now. The Eve and Spark F1`s no longer bump the wall.

Thanks again.

tj

 

[svictor]

Hi @tjc

Since you mentioned Brianza Historic Edition, can you confirm that AI crash issue also happening to "Brianza Historic Edition"?

I have just re-tested each layouts in "Brianza Historic Edition" (in both normal and DEV modes), and AIs (EVE F1 68) has no issues exiting the U-turn at paddock exit.

This is how AI takes paddock U-turn in Brianza Historic Edition (v2.09):

Some notes:

All AIW files in "Brianza Historic Edition" had been reworked and adjusted to avoid the AI crash issue in pitlane (as @woochoo mentioned), which @DJCruicky also helped with extensive testing.

More specifically, we manually adjusted the hidden AI reference speed on each AIW nodes from "pit extension path", which they enforce a hard speed-limit on AIs that they cannot exceed this speed while exiting pit, which solved the AI overspeeding and crashing issues. And the plus side is that this method doesn't require to limit pit-speed (which is not realistic for historic tracks). The same technique was also used for Dundrod and a few other tracks.

How they looks like in DEV mode:

We also fixed large amount AIW issues that exist in ISI's original version, and track-cut has been completely redone to newest RF2 standards.

There are however some rare edge cases where AI would fail to take the U-turn safely, such as due to very low steering lock or unusual steering shaft/chassis geometry, which are known to result AI bug.

Cheers

 

[woochoo]

...we manually adjusted the hidden AI reference speed on each AIW nodes from "pit extension path"...

i would like to know more about this, please

 

[tjc]

@svictor Thanks for posting as it would seem I am mistaken.

I just tested again myself and can confirm there is NO AI crashing bug on the Brianza Historic Edition v2.09

I tried the original track, 10k and the 500 (just to check) and the AI behaved perfectly so please accept my apologies. When testing this AI bug I tried several tracks to see if this problem was happening anywhere else and I must have thought I was trying the Historic Edition when, in fact, I was obviously testing the original ISI version. My bad.

I`ll amend my posts to remove the parts saying this was a problem on the HE edition of Monza both here and on the rF2 Discord.

If I had realised I`d made a mistake then I would not have let @redapg go to the trouble he did (although I appreciate it)

Apologies again and thanks for the work on the HE of Monza by all involved.

tj

 

[svictor]

Thanks @tjc, your report helped.

I have done more testing with different cars, and found out why certain car mods ("Historic F2" & "Spark F3" in this case) can crash with Brianza HE:

RF2 track supports multiple fastest paths, and for most track mods there is usually only one fastest path. But tracks like Brianza 66 and SPA 66 contain several fastest paths for different cars. And the AI speed limit workaround was only applied to the main fastest path. In this case, Brianza 66 contains two additional paths for "Historic F2" & "Spark F3" classes, and the workaround wasn't applied to those class specific paths. It is why the AIs from those two classes would crash into wall.

I've now added workaround to all AIW paths in the new v2.10 update for Brianza HE ("FASTEST, LEFT, RIGHT, BLOCK, Historic F2, Spark F3"), which is now tested and work for all those car classes.

Let me know if you have further issue with Brianza HE.

----

To @woochoo, I'll try write a short guide soon.

edit：see https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?posts/1155163/

 

[tjc]

@svictor Just to report that everything seems to be working well with the new 2.10 version of Brianza Historic Edition as far as the pit lane is concerned.

Tested the Eve & Spark F2`s and F3`s and they are all exiting the pits with no problems.

I did come across one issue though. When I put my car in AI control and it was leaving the pits another AI car left a second or so after me and crashed into me. My car is the red one bottom left of the screenshot.

I`m not sure if that`s something you can adjust or not but thought I`d mention it.

Apart from that everything seemed to work well.

I`ll do some more testing with other cars and run a race or two and get back if needed.

 

[svictor]

Thanks.

Yes, due to very tight space between garage spots and pass lane, AI can, in rare cases, collide with another car when exiting garage spot.

Unfortunately there is not much can be done consider how small the space is behind Brianza's primary pit building. Both "GarageDepth", and gap between "garage spot" and "pit extension path" are already kept as far away as possible, there is no further space beyond grass and wall on each side (we also need to reserve some space for larger size vehicles).

But this does not happen often, there is no need to worry about it. Most of time, AI will wait coming car before moving out garage. I Believe it is more about how AI behavior logic is coded by game developer.