Rui Santos
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Brasilian pro driver opinion...
AC EVO main prediction
- Thread starter mantasisg
- Start date
mantasisg
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What interesting did he say ? I assume he is also just judging from the footage so far ? Thats good, because I guess all those who played it in the expo probably had some special access to it with conditions, who knows... This being said they are probably allowed to talk whatever they like about physics.
I have seen there is also Aris video of himself testing ACE supposedly "first time", gotta watch it some time soon. I really think Aris is undoubtedly one of best physics guys there are, and I think he has great eye and feel for cars physics. That doesn't change the fact that he is on same boat with them anyway, even if he doesn't develop there anymore.
FAlonso
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The rain has impressed me, it seems to be at a high level, the tyre's behaviour seems to be very well connected to what you see on the track.
It is very important that the accumulation of water is well represented in the graphic section to know how or where to drive and to anticipate the risk.
Joe Cole
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my predictions, it will be the 2nd best sim. Rf2 will still have a more realistic tire on track experience. ACC was not that good of a sim, AC was better and AC2 looks to be a step up from AC. Now when it comes to all the sims out there, the only ones that I will spend time playing is Rf2, AC, AMS. All the rest, are not worth my time. I forgot to add LMU, it's OK but i think it needs much more work to be as good as Rf2. I also think the decision to abandon Rf2 and not make a Rf3 is a terrible mistake.
mantasisg
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@FAlonso to be honest it impressed me too. But not as much because I was already impressed by it back when ACC was just launched and they did little quick hotfix. Back then IMO it already was epic. Maybe it was just little on the too hard side by then. But they switched back whole paradigm that involved the way dry drove as well, so because of that I am certain that that level of realism is not going to happen anymore.
But yes it is looks impressive, it works. It does stuff. Have to use proper lines, avoid aquaplaning. Cars aren't too soapy, they do grip and drive normally, and they do twitch a little with recoverable short oversteers like they should realistically. I really do hope that they will not make that any less challenging and that they won't make it safer than that. I have a strong hunch that it is already considerably on the easier side a lot. People looked pretty chill driving there, not tense, and they drove on pretty high speeds. The ywere doing mistakes because they drove for first laps, and not focused properly. Track looked very wet.
I am not saying this is how the driving on ACE expo should have looked. In expo they were only loosing the car whe ncatchign puddles on the outside way out on the exit, not in the midturn due to other factors. It might be more wet, and they might be running tires that are less fit for rain than in ACE Alpine demo. But these things happen in the rain when you drive too fast too soon. Rain is in that way amazing - if you drive way too fast too soon - you end up spinning annoyingly. But if you manage to drive fast early enough, then you win heat in your tires, thus you win more grip, thus you can then go slightly faster still, and still gain more heat in tires and more grip (of course with nuances of avoiding aquaplaning). Because of that reason sometimes fast guys in rain are 2-3 seconds or even more quicker than most their rivals. Also because of that there are deep traditions in simracing to not use rain races at all costs. In ACE it will be more likely calibrated to extract just fun part, and the racing will be pretty much fun for everybody with no skill outcasts snailing alone about to lapped on 5th race lap. But maybe that would be good, maybe it will help for many simracers to get used to proper wet racing hardcore business by doing these baby steps.
I will be very interested to see how ACE will be eventually once released. I really think it will be truly great sim, not with such a great depth of simulation like rF2, and it will be just slightly pushed to nicer side of realism. I am sure it will be amazing simulation, for most people it will be more than enough. Despite shying to give people full realism and making them feel bad in this way. I wish they will slowly move towards throwing unfiltered realism into peoples faces eventually (sounds harsh, but it isn't, it is just about subtle differences), maybe it is good idea to be approaching it gradually, and not making a sudden jump, shocking their beloved fans as they have done with ACC. If people/we will not continue loosing intelligence at alarming rates, maybe in 30 years, they/we will be prepared to experience things like they are IRL.
But yes it is looks impressive, it works. It does stuff. Have to use proper lines, avoid aquaplaning. Cars aren't too soapy, they do grip and drive normally, and they do twitch a little with recoverable short oversteers like they should realistically. I really do hope that they will not make that any less challenging and that they won't make it safer than that. I have a strong hunch that it is already considerably on the easier side a lot. People looked pretty chill driving there, not tense, and they drove on pretty high speeds. The ywere doing mistakes because they drove for first laps, and not focused properly. Track looked very wet.
I am not saying this is how the driving on ACE expo should have looked. In expo they were only loosing the car whe ncatchign puddles on the outside way out on the exit, not in the midturn due to other factors. It might be more wet, and they might be running tires that are less fit for rain than in ACE Alpine demo. But these things happen in the rain when you drive too fast too soon. Rain is in that way amazing - if you drive way too fast too soon - you end up spinning annoyingly. But if you manage to drive fast early enough, then you win heat in your tires, thus you win more grip, thus you can then go slightly faster still, and still gain more heat in tires and more grip (of course with nuances of avoiding aquaplaning). Because of that reason sometimes fast guys in rain are 2-3 seconds or even more quicker than most their rivals. Also because of that there are deep traditions in simracing to not use rain races at all costs. In ACE it will be more likely calibrated to extract just fun part, and the racing will be pretty much fun for everybody with no skill outcasts snailing alone about to lapped on 5th race lap. But maybe that would be good, maybe it will help for many simracers to get used to proper wet racing hardcore business by doing these baby steps.
I will be very interested to see how ACE will be eventually once released. I really think it will be truly great sim, not with such a great depth of simulation like rF2, and it will be just slightly pushed to nicer side of realism. I am sure it will be amazing simulation, for most people it will be more than enough. Despite shying to give people full realism and making them feel bad in this way. I wish they will slowly move towards throwing unfiltered realism into peoples faces eventually (sounds harsh, but it isn't, it is just about subtle differences), maybe it is good idea to be approaching it gradually, and not making a sudden jump, shocking their beloved fans as they have done with ACC. If people/we will not continue loosing intelligence at alarming rates, maybe in 30 years, they/we will be prepared to experience things like they are IRL.
mantasisg
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ACC was an absolute miscommunication and no balls. However, must admit that it pulled pretty good player nubmers still eventually. Perhaps not without a help of their very powerful flagship - AC.
rF2 should be that flagship for LMU. As well as it should have been for BTCC game, Indy game and NASCAR game. But rF2 had to be finished up much more. It looks like Kunos just simply understands it better that you need to finish one thing, before moving to another. Ok so, now we got our lovely rF2 finished without being finished, not even any proper statement that it won't be developed anymore. So maybe it is not finished lol
I agree very likely ACE will be 2nd best sim. It will be 2nd best sim to iRacers. It will be 2nd best sim to rF2 lovers.
It will be 2nd best sim for AC enjoyers. And it will be almost certainly better than AC, it is just that unless there is some kind of powerful magic impulse, the simracers just keep playing their same good old sim - a lot of good mods yet to be completed and a lot of well organized racing just keeps on going on and whole system just keeps working. There will be a lot of people afraid to risk it all by breaking the line in order to transfer it all to next gen sim. I personally have no idea how some people after several thousand hours in AC doesn't start to perceive various artificial details and nuances and are able to just keep grinding it. All the juices has been squeezed, and they keep finiding ways how to use all of it lol
FAlonso
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Well, for the same reason, because your perception is linked to your tastes, the tastes of most people do not resemble yours at all.
Kunos has taken over the sim racing market, you believe that everyone is wrong and that the 500 rFactor2 players are right.
AC and ACC will stop being the reference at the moment that ACE wants. The new SRO seasons could be acquired by ACE leaving ACC in oblivion. I suppose AC will remain at the top for a long time, but that will be decided by kunos. If you open the door to modding with ACE in the same way that it was in AC, everyone will want to see your MOD in a more advanced and nicer simulator, I don't think that the conversion to ACE requires a lot of work when using the same engine.
mantasisg
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Nobody is wrong and nobody is right. It is just that somebody is wrong less than others. Depending on what you look at. I think we are focusing on physics, car handling.
It is not that simple. I have loved AC 1000% for thousand+ hours. Later I have started feelign like I want little bit more of this and that, mostly naming driving experience - the physics, what the cars do. It is not too crazy to speculate that every person may have different upper end of how much physics they can even perceive at all. The perceptions obviously gets saturated differently.
The taste is entirely another problem, some will love super unforgiving always on toes driving, others will love super chill laugh maker, drifting everywhere while drinking coffee. You can achieve the difficulty level differently regardless the level of how much dynamic variables are simulated.
The rF2 probably does simulate so much, that most people will be able to get their perceptions saturated, with some simulation still left in reserve. I like a lot of music by Apex Twin. I mean I am listening to those bangers, and I keep discovering new sounds and new rhythms and ideas years later despite listening to these often. Now then there are also a lot of music that you have heard once, and you already experienced all of it consciously and subconsiously, no need to say these are much more simplistic creations. I think same goes with our cars racing simulations.
Now thats what the simulations can do. What the content available for them will utilise is making it all real tricky. Average AC content simply utilises AC way better, than typical rF2 content utilises rF2. There are a lot of good rF2 content though. IMO the fact that AC that has been long ago stopped to be officially developed was constantly 20x more played than rF2 is just simply tragic. It is a tragedy, but it could have been worse, it could have been much worse.
ACC will certainly quickly drop into oblivion, rF2 and AMS2 popularity level and bellow. The AC will not. It is great question how available will Kunos allow ACE modding to be, it will have a lot to do with player numbers. But at the end they need to make money, and has to calculate and predict everything optimally. If they will just simply make modding extremely easily approachable, then they are going to sell less DLC and higher player numbers might not compensate that.
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IMHO, rF2 is an anomaly. It shouldn't exist because of the tremendous work involved in its development and the small niche market it has. Probably, there will never be another simracing title like it. It's a product of love for real racing, not some corporation product built to generate money. It makes me sad more people doesn't realize this or doesn't care.
New titles will keep the trend of pursuing visual and sonic realism without significant advances in physics realism that would make content creation harder, development more complex, and users unhappy because it's more demanding.
New titles will keep the trend of pursuing visual and sonic realism without significant advances in physics realism that would make content creation harder, development more complex, and users unhappy because it's more demanding.
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mantasisg
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I agree it is insane. And there doesn't have to be another product like it. It has evovled very far, little more and it would basically cover all essential physics base for complete experiencing what it is to drive most cars in most circumstances.
People doesn't care. Even a lot of people within rF2 doesn't care, they just get enough and they are happy. And sim offers lot more than it is enough for them. Yet everyone has a thing that they miss a lot in rF2 lol I think if suddenly people finds themselves not having enough. And there would be plenty of cars in rF2 handling up to such level that almost no one could have any significant doubt anymore, then people would care, would enjoy it. AC it is not perfect, sometimes there is a bit of hassle with it as well, I guess even more so since it is super modded out. But right now people are covered, they have enough realism, enough content. There must be a lot of races available with that many people playing and that by itself has an effect of attraction. If I was Kunos I would definitely worry about ACE not picking up more than 1/2 of AC players for good, they might not have calculated and planned their obsolesence well enough, who could have known that it is all what 90% people needs.
I think we are so lucky that rF2 happened, we have to be super thankful for its original creators and everyone who has taken the wheel after the original creators left. It is almost like if we were about to hit finish straight before the motor ran out of fuel or whatever has happened, maybe it can still ignite, once more.
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mantasisg
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Super interesting what is it going to be. I am tempted to try soon early on, but I neither have time, nor money. What I assume physics car handling wise, EA phase might have it best, just like it happened with ACC. Then there will be mass of complaints about "weird FFB", "not the same/as good as AC1), and Kunos and what their publisher is will buckle and will have to do a counter action to please people, and lots of people to please they have, AC is now a mainstream cars game. Can it maintain the simulator status. And more importantly than status - essence.
I think reviews by YT influencers will be most valuable of those who hasn't reviewed it in press demo event.
I wonder what will happen with simracing the next. AC1 continues with mindblowing player numbers. ACE will most certainly instantly benefit of at least third of those. Will they remain in AC, or will they transfer to ACE as their main one. What will happen with rF2, player numbers are diminishing alarmingly fast, S397 want it to die, people are quiting, 100 guys will transfer to ACE and rF2 will loose 1/3 of players, new people aren't really appearing, and IMO it is best option - most realistic and very moddable still largely undiscovered and sadly still an unpolished diamond. While AC1 continues with its glory, Ifully udnerstand it is fine sim, but I have no idea how it still interests people after very many hours playing, on the contrast rF2 with a lot more hours already still feels new to me. And I am slowly realising that difficulty of rF2 modding is on the entry, on later phases after learning stuff up it is almsot easier than AC, apart few details. I guess marketing and good strategy is just this much important. Clearly italian guys knows what they are doign from A to Z, they would probably also have a better sim than rF2 now, if they wouldn't have learned that overwhelming majority of people don't really want this much simulation.
Very interested to see whats up with ACE where it stands in reference to AC, but I am certain rF2 is probably never going to be passed, maybe only by iRacing, but they have their own weird problems, such as unwillingness to actually have cool and great handling cars.
I think reviews by YT influencers will be most valuable of those who hasn't reviewed it in press demo event.
I wonder what will happen with simracing the next. AC1 continues with mindblowing player numbers. ACE will most certainly instantly benefit of at least third of those. Will they remain in AC, or will they transfer to ACE as their main one. What will happen with rF2, player numbers are diminishing alarmingly fast, S397 want it to die, people are quiting, 100 guys will transfer to ACE and rF2 will loose 1/3 of players, new people aren't really appearing, and IMO it is best option - most realistic and very moddable still largely undiscovered and sadly still an unpolished diamond. While AC1 continues with its glory, Ifully udnerstand it is fine sim, but I have no idea how it still interests people after very many hours playing, on the contrast rF2 with a lot more hours already still feels new to me. And I am slowly realising that difficulty of rF2 modding is on the entry, on later phases after learning stuff up it is almsot easier than AC, apart few details. I guess marketing and good strategy is just this much important. Clearly italian guys knows what they are doign from A to Z, they would probably also have a better sim than rF2 now, if they wouldn't have learned that overwhelming majority of people don't really want this much simulation.
Very interested to see whats up with ACE where it stands in reference to AC, but I am certain rF2 is probably never going to be passed, maybe only by iRacing, but they have their own weird problems, such as unwillingness to actually have cool and great handling cars.
FAlonso
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For you rf2 still feels new, for the vast majority of players rf2 was born old and has died old.
I understand your feelings and your wishes, but rF2 is gone, nobody mentions rF2 in simracing, you will never be able to enjoy simracing if you are stuck in rF2, only an rF3 could do that, no sim is going to pretend to be like rF2 as it is the least successful sim at the moment.
Even a possible rF3 should be very far from rF2 if it wants to be successful.
I understand your feelings and your wishes, but rF2 is gone, nobody mentions rF2 in simracing, you will never be able to enjoy simracing if you are stuck in rF2, only an rF3 could do that, no sim is going to pretend to be like rF2 as it is the least successful sim at the moment.
Even a possible rF3 should be very far from rF2 if it wants to be successful.
mantasisg
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Thats sounds very much like gaslighting lol Because it is.
What are you doing here if you have no good feelings for rF2 ? rF2 is nowhere gone, and will never be. It might be washed off, there might be fewer people using it over time. It doesn't make it stop being there. The same goes for AMS1.
People are free to choose. No denying that AC is more attractive, ACE probably isn't even going to pass it (or maybe?). For what matters for a sim, AC is not even touching rF2. rF2 has just always been brilliant to show itself on bad light, thanks to completely awful marketing all the time. AC on the other hand - brilliant marketing.
rF2 wasn't even finished. If ISI would have planned out their road map better, and maybe had just a touch more luck to develop it actively for 2-3 more years, it would be so light years ahead from the rest... But AC fans would still pretend that there is nothing special - but you just can't see: chassis, tires, aerodynamics, much higher definition all vehicle physics parameters and computing real time. AC people are proud of their "Kunos standard" cars being artificially molded to, they all have proactive FFB as if they all would have huge casters and very fast steering ratios, they all aren't doing subtle things cars should do such as four wheels sliding and various subtle things that requires micro-corrections while driving. AC is a good sim, but it is overhyped since Kunos stopped developing it, the clan of modders that keeps AC going and their fans needs a reality check - AC is not their creation, and I don't think it is better than Live For Speed (very good sim) in terms of physics. rF2 is an underdog, and denying its greatness is ignorance and disrespect. rF2 has never grown up, it is young, but you are likely type of guy that drives graphics and not physics. No worries, thats normal.
Also if anyone believes that rF3 can happen, also needs a relaity check. The current developers could only reuse and probably simplify physics of rF2. All the years they had rF2 in their hands they barely improved the physics, they did few good things such as enabling ambient temperatures affecting grip. But it wasn't much, not close to what was needed. Coding of such high caliber simulation is not only immensely demanding for coding skill, but also one can imagine it takes very good understanding about physics also.
What are you doing here if you have no good feelings for rF2 ? rF2 is nowhere gone, and will never be. It might be washed off, there might be fewer people using it over time. It doesn't make it stop being there. The same goes for AMS1.
People are free to choose. No denying that AC is more attractive, ACE probably isn't even going to pass it (or maybe?). For what matters for a sim, AC is not even touching rF2. rF2 has just always been brilliant to show itself on bad light, thanks to completely awful marketing all the time. AC on the other hand - brilliant marketing.
rF2 wasn't even finished. If ISI would have planned out their road map better, and maybe had just a touch more luck to develop it actively for 2-3 more years, it would be so light years ahead from the rest... But AC fans would still pretend that there is nothing special - but you just can't see: chassis, tires, aerodynamics, much higher definition all vehicle physics parameters and computing real time. AC people are proud of their "Kunos standard" cars being artificially molded to, they all have proactive FFB as if they all would have huge casters and very fast steering ratios, they all aren't doing subtle things cars should do such as four wheels sliding and various subtle things that requires micro-corrections while driving. AC is a good sim, but it is overhyped since Kunos stopped developing it, the clan of modders that keeps AC going and their fans needs a reality check - AC is not their creation, and I don't think it is better than Live For Speed (very good sim) in terms of physics. rF2 is an underdog, and denying its greatness is ignorance and disrespect. rF2 has never grown up, it is young, but you are likely type of guy that drives graphics and not physics. No worries, thats normal.
Also if anyone believes that rF3 can happen, also needs a relaity check. The current developers could only reuse and probably simplify physics of rF2. All the years they had rF2 in their hands they barely improved the physics, they did few good things such as enabling ambient temperatures affecting grip. But it wasn't much, not close to what was needed. Coding of such high caliber simulation is not only immensely demanding for coding skill, but also one can imagine it takes very good understanding about physics also.
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Emery
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From what I've read and seen, AC EVO's early access launch is probably the worst in history. Part of that is 25k people trying to access the online servers at the same time, but overall Kunos would have done better to postpone early access, like LMU did, because of the bugs not associated with online servers.
Edit: at least people say the driving is competent. OTOH, it still has the AC bad throttle mapping as confirmed by Niels Heusinkveld: Assetto Corsa EVO Throttle Model Review. Nope.
Edit: at least people say the driving is competent. OTOH, it still has the AC bad throttle mapping as confirmed by Niels Heusinkveld: Assetto Corsa EVO Throttle Model Review. Nope.
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mantasisg
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I am briefly following up ACE launch videos and streams. Haven't seen anything impressive so far. Graphics looks good and smooth. Maybe I just don't know what to watch. So far "Super GT" seems like most worthy following, he is Gran Turismo guy, but he seems respectable. I am laughing at GamerMuscle, nothing changed about him - FFBFFBFFBFFBFFBFFFBFFB... If anyone is talking about sim, and they mostly talk - FFB this and FFB that, you can be sure they don't understand things.
Jimmers stream is quite decent.
Jimmers stream is quite decent.
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I just spent a few hours on It. First Impressions (for me) are nice, I do think they are off to a good start. A lot of things are just basic (UI, replays, etc..) and the FFB took me a bit to dial In something decent, but that was expected. Runs pretty smooth and yes as someone mentioned already, It´s a step above the original AC, which was also expected.
A good foundation me thinks, as long as they don´t screw something up along the way. What I personally miss Is slippage feedback on your wheel, and front breaking feedback. There´s no cue on your FFB for both those sensations, at least for now, or I didn´t know how to dial It In yet. But It does look, and feel promising. It´s In EA so as I see It, It´s all WIP and fun to explore, I wish them well. I am glad for Kunos, I mean along with ISI/S397 they are both the recent gen best representations of sim racing genre to date, at least for me, and they both deserve the love and support of all of us Interested In this hobby.
A good foundation me thinks, as long as they don´t screw something up along the way. What I personally miss Is slippage feedback on your wheel, and front breaking feedback. There´s no cue on your FFB for both those sensations, at least for now, or I didn´t know how to dial It In yet. But It does look, and feel promising. It´s In EA so as I see It, It´s all WIP and fun to explore, I wish them well. I am glad for Kunos, I mean along with ISI/S397 they are both the recent gen best representations of sim racing genre to date, at least for me, and they both deserve the love and support of all of us Interested In this hobby.