If we drew a bell curve of how much realism is most appreciated, by most people. We would see AC on the peak. If it gets more advanced and more complex, people with more simple perceptions would disagree too much. If it gets simplified, people with more observant and richer perceptions would start disagree too much. For this reason, AC EVO is going to be based somewhere closer around physics state of AC.
Well I can't help think i won't like the physics, I certainly don't like robotic AI which just totally destroys offline immersion. Feels more like Forza / GT to me, not that's a bad thing you understand. Is room for all if we support all ............cough cough S397 cough If by some incredible outcome ACE drives better then rF2 I will absolutely be the first to say so. I am beholden to no engine ! Having said that ACE will sell by the bucket full no matter what anyone says or does........ All the "oohs and aahs " and 95% positivity will make their day, again.
I saw the promotional video for Assetto Corsa Evolution. This video left me with the impression that the graphic aspect, like any AAA video game, is incredibly important for this simulation (or Simcade). Then, I went through many comments, maybe 200 or 300 in the YouTube comments of the video. Apart from me (lol), only one person, I mean only one person, spoke briefly about the importance of the realism of driving and the physics engine. Only one damn person, out of a few hundred. I think that this aspect is extremely negative because like any company, Kunos will probably be tempted to directly satisfy their players and will probably have little interest in making Assetto Corsa Evolution a full-fledged simulation, i.e. ultra-realistic like rFactor 2. Of course, I don't really have any concrete evidence. But that's my impression. And I hope I'm wrong, because in the absolutely improbable hypothesis in my opinion or the driving realism and the physics engine would be equal in quality to that of rfactor 2 approximately, in this really improbable hypothesis, I will use for the first time another simulation than rFactor 2 (in addition to rfactor 2). But I absolutely do not believe it, honestly when I saw hundreds of comments from people who really have no interest in the realism of driving in sim, a disproportionate interest in the graphic quality, and all the rest, frankly it leaves me doubtful. We have almost no element if not none concerning the realism of assetto Corsa evolution, but I am really very pessimistic despite the fact that I would like it to be a real simulation. Hard to believe frankly.
I'm making no predictions because they're a waste of time. However, I never thought I'd be cheering on Project Motor Racing, LOL!
@Emery I agree. Though they come into mind in no time. Little waste of time could be arguing in the internet. But it also sometimes inevitably happens for a little, because of passion in mind driven by heart lol HAHA so guilty, I completely can't afford time for it, yet wasted it. I checked Project Motor Racing briefly, I absolutely trust Ben Collins as handling consultant. I think he not only has top understanding and top experience, but he is also capable to express it through words, so there is not that much to guess what he means. However, it doesn't mean that the simulation and handling will be the way he would want to, or that he really cares for it to be so in games lol I just watched one little interview in which he said that cars in sims always loose to much grip, and I can not help to wonder what exactly he is referring to, we know he has driven thousands of RL cars, but how much and what has he driven in simulators ? @pilAUTO Yes, absolutely, the attention to physics in AC has been fading away for a long time. My guess is that due to being satisfied they don't care anymore. Many of them thinks that it is as good as it gets so it is like "done", you know, it is done... I am also worried how after so many years that community is still drowning in topic of FFB. They understand nothing about what their perceptions are coming from, they don't know anything about physics. They can only focus on peace of plastic in their hands, and the way it moves in their minds is the tires, the aerodynamics, the engine, the chassis, the suspension, the masses, the transmission, the road surface. Knowing little and wanting to know less is a common theme, it is popular and AC is popular. AC has rather good physics IMO, lacking depth it is still enough for absolute majority. Besides physics depth, there is also handling paradigm. For AC people it is very important, because all cars are quite strictly tied to it - cars love getting into sliding state and being there, they don't snap on off too much, the FFB is very proactive almost like if it was with steering assistance. Not unusual to hear an opinion from AC players that they want FFB to have some of "seat feel" modeled in it. And it actually is how AC feels a bit, although it kills off several exciting car dynamics, such as neutral steer state and being uncertain about whats about to initiate - oversteer or understeer at some situations. I imagine it is very difficult decisions for Kunos what to do. They must have physics improvements, that probably is going to be some new features. But retouch of core handling will be very gentle, I guess. A big question is if they will make the car handling bit more free from "AC paradigm" and a little more natural ? Will they keep it just the same ? Maybe they will push cars handling gently towards little more easy and predictable "improved" at the limits of adhesion, so that tires wouldn't speak too fast, FFB keep informing about what to do before it is too late. It might be a sweet little lie at the end, or it might be an extra sweet huge lie. People not having any interest and care about all these details and just taking it all for granted is a giveaway that it is what going to happen, because first of all they run business, just as you say. And I see that their direction is on taking over Gran Turismo and Forza. And good luck for them, it is still going to be a sim, even if it will have slight "helps" and "simplifications", I believe Kunos will balance it so that they are still a sim. But most likely will be way closer to sim-cade, than hardcore sim. @8Ball Definitely, ACE will be big success can tell it already. I will not own it only if it proves to be under level of AC as a simulation. If it will be same level, I will be interested to try and race a bit, but won't be interested to be coming back. If it would go much higher up as a sim, well, that could capture me. All signs show though that they might stay close to where AC is now just with more features, so there is that.. And they could be flipping it violently during the early access, searching for what people likes the most, that would be mistake, so probably they just keep it very safe close to where AC is as it stood test of time and likes. They might not have balls to push it anywhere, simply because likes. In the market: realism < likes. While everyone thinks full realism is where the most fun is at, the fun ends for those who are either unskilled or are tired and can't concentrate to push car to the limits, they just want to have some fun and don't get too tired in the evening you know.... also making cars less demanding shrinks the gap between best and worst drivers, it is like communism. Emulating where AC was taken through modding through all the years, and bringing everything few steps further, making everything little better, little sweeter while keeping the vibe of original AC could boost them up forward much closer to Gran Turismo and Forza pretty fast, there they can't afford to be hardcore sim, but they can attempt keeping it still a sim as much as possible.
I saw the video and for moments i thought i was watching a replay in old AC... no rubbered racing line, dumb slide behaviour of the cars (specially Hyundai) without tire marks on the asphalt, no tire flex, etçª, just like in old AC... I can imagine it won't be as dumb as we saw in the promo video, i'm sure it will have more features, but i honestly start doubting about a WHOLE new engine or revolutionary new physics, i think they'll keep the old engine with more bells and whistles, the main doubt is if it will be more complex or just an EVO of the old AC... we'll see!
This is exactly why it won't be high on my shopping list. It's what held me off from initially purchasing AC... that style of sim is not what I'm seeking while ACC was an easier purchase. Kunos have proven to themselves that ACC-style doesn't sell as well as original AC-style does, thus we get what is essentially a repeat (but probably with more of the player-requested features such as traffic & open world driving). Whether they can pull players from Gran Turismo and Forza will likely depend on if they can extend modding to consoles.
ACC probably didn't sell as well as original AC for two reasons, dedicated to endurance/GT and not moddable, completely different realities..
The better the graphics, the more demanding it is on the computer. You always have to compromise somewhere. Most systems (even in 2025) probably won’t be able to run the game smoothly on max settings, that is if the graphics are that good. An improvement in one area is a deterioration in another.
I don't think AC EVO will be a day one purchase for me. Firstly, I don't think my PC is good enough to run the game according to their "recommended specs". Secondly, early access has burned me more than once. Not just for racing games, but gaming in general. I will wait to see how things go when EVO releases. I did enjoy the trailer they posted on youtube. Looks great. Hope it drives as good as it looks. I also enjoyed Reiza's trailer for AMS2 1.6 release. I hope that lives up to the hype..they are going crazy on reiza's forum. How can a developer live up to the hype and speculation these days, it's nuts. Anyway...wait and see I guess. Driving feel is more important, and these two developers better get it right.
Driving feel question seems to be extremely difficult. It would be easy lol if it was just about being realistic. But they have to be liked. By many people. Because they aim for larger numbers of people, they need to sell. It would be so nice if it was just about simulation. But it is about what ? What they say in the announcement trailer ? It is basically about nothing, just about passion ? Sounds nice and inspiring, very open too different interpretations, I fear that what it actually means it is about this (just without "eeeaaaaghghh"): You can not give people too much of "eeeaaaaghghh". There shouldn't be. Because realistically cars don't drive so bad. But also realistically once over the limit, cars do drive bad combined with low skill, low concentration, wrong anticipations. These devs of new age sims, that still can be called simulations, take into account that most people playing will be distracted, tired, untrained, low skill, perhaps not even in a mood at times with their mind drifting somewhere else while they try to drift like Chris Harris with four different cars on same evening. They will do it by pulling tire parameters as much as possible to least dynamic states, as long as they do still feel dynamic. Pulling steering helps as much as there can't be, as long as they are as little apparent as possible and what is apparent - thats for simulating seat feel (so smart), avoiding any complex simulation that adds up to dynamics and thus demand for subtle skill while at the same time winning on simplified development and reduced potential breaking issues. Then also have a gaslighting campaign on which you make others, who took other route (for example rF2), look wrong. I am all for other sims to succeed and be great in a way that they see is right for them. I absolutely hate to see people gaslighted and lied to, and believing wrong things. And it is easy to see that people are sometimes inclined to listen to false, so going true is actually against the stream. I hate when in peoples mind superior simulations such as rF2 and iRacing are seen as "bad guys" who are somehow "elitist" and purposefully making everybody suffer through difficulties, so lets just have it all more simple you know - it is more fun. In terms of rF2, which is moddable, it leaks in, as there is no obvious lead and many different perceptions can be had without even having criticizing any comments, no discussion - you can have absolutely simplified and also wrong physics and handling car in here and to be seen as it is supposed to be this way as long as few guys thinks it is fun, it is fragile system. I want to add that IMO all the latest official content of rF2 was mostly awesome, IMO. I wish it is not over. Ironically, it seems like staying unpopular is a saving grace to stay true. The absolutely weirdest thing is that IMO the most realistic cars ARE easiest and also they ARE most fun. But for some reason people want to have ease at over the limit, at alien pace, getting closer to that alien pace. Being 0.5s off, rather 3-4s off where they belong, with their one month of total training and zero knowledge. The modern simulations developers will have it all in check, and win double - simplified development + granted more likeable products. Because it turns out normal people are no where near being professional and they not only can't use all of the stuff, but they also don't like it and don't find it fun, even if they perhaps have fantasies in their minds how they want stuff to be evolving and realism thriving. No, they just want woohooo sideways and win a race while chilling on evening after difficult day, and think to themselves that this was a real deal.
It's 2024, a lot of technology available, and i can't stand the idea that future sims will be dumb or not realistic to satisfy the average gamer (not motorsport lover), for that we already have a lot of offer on PC and Consoles... In oposition to what @mantasisg wrote, i think more people are seeking for realism more than ever..
My prediction is that ACE will be an evolution of AC, which is exactly what it should be. I guess we'll find changes and improvements in physics that already came in ACC, along with weather, integrated lfm or a similar system, with mods after the end of early access... If AC was already perfect for 90% of people who enjoy simracing, ACE should be an evolution of what people love and not a revolution that nobody wants. Your point is a bit absurd, you're asking for the benchmark of simracing to look like the failed rF2 to satisfy your sense of realism. PS: Now talking about the trailer, it left me cold, I was expecting a trailer with a lot of information about the new features and improvements. In the trailer we only see how beautiful its graphics look, something that we all already sensed. I guess that in the three and a half months left for the launch we will see these new features and improvements.
Do you think that the substantial and significant improvement of all the elements that contribute to the realism of driving would make assetto Corsa evolution a failed simulation like rFactor 2 is according to you (personally I don't find that rfactor 2 is a failure, only its commercial part but not at all the rest). I think that the reasoning you have just developed is not relevant, I will spare you the word absurd
I'm not asking, i'm hoping that ACE will be more refined/realistic than AC was! And IMO if ACE is inferior to rF2 it will be a BIG disappointment for the simracing market that should be evolving... rF2 might not look as good as a modern game, also it has its flaws, but in terms of physics, FFB or vehicle dynamics is the benchmark! Are you sure they truly enjoy simracing? Or is just the average Joe pretending he's Max Verstappen? I'm sure Gran Turismo or Forza players also think they do simracing
As I said, AC is a benchmark in the sim racing world. REALISM feels very different to each person, it cannot be measured. AC is possibly the most appreciated simulator at the moment for its realism. By this I mean that it is the one that has best fit in among sim racing fans. rF2 in the sim racing world encompasses 5% of players, AC possibly 80% without counting iRacing. What is the point of ACE trying to be like rF2? rF2 is insignificant for the vast majority of sim racers.
And what about those numbers compared with Gran Turismo? Are you nuts?? Now the selling charts tell us what is the best/more complex simulation?? People will allways play/buy what is easier, not what is realistic/difficult! You're completely missing the point! AC grip at 100% from one edge to the other of the track is realistic? I'm out...
@FAlonso Resembling and trying to equalize or at least get closer to rfactor 2 on all aspects that concern driving realism is in my opinion something clever when you want to make a simulation, a real one, in 2024, and even 10 years before to tell the truth. For the other aspects of the simulation, let's leave kunos alone and trust them to do it their way, I'm sure they will do it rather well. Which in my opinion is not at all the case concerning driving realism, neither with ACC nor with assetto Corsa have they managed to even approach rfactor 2 or LMU in terms of realism. Moreover, this is just an opinion and just an opinion, for me a simulation is a simulation ONLY when it is realistic in terms of driving, when it approaches the best of what is done in the field, when we feel that the developers are strongly dedicated to it. Moreover I think you are making a mistake to rely on the number and proportion of simracers who like this or that simulation : To be really honest, the real driving enthusiasts of which I am part, who really have experience and experience in real life or maybe they don't have any but in any case whose goal is to use a realistic simulation to maintain their level and possibly progress on some aspects even if this infinitely less formative than real life, are totally in the minority among the magnificent simracers. And precisely this is my opinion I don't think I'm wrong, the majority of this small proportion will obviously prefer rFactor 2 and LMU than other simulators including the simulator-GAME assetto Corsa to name only one. Maybe if we ask the simracers using this simulation, they will all or almost all say that their absolute priority is the level of realism in the choice of their simulation... honestly it makes me laugh, because I am convinced that it is not at all their priority... ...The traffic, the graphics, the pretty weather, the pretty cars, the billions of different cars,... that's what motivates them the most in my opinion, this is an opinion once again lol, which does not mean that it is wrong...
ACE will be what it is when it gets here. We cannot change it. It will be early access, which traditionally means incomplete compared to their vision. Since Kunos has not been forthcoming in their plans, we have no idea what the final product will be. This is why I'm not getting too involved playing the prediction game. What we've been shown is that racing is not a large part of the package. Lots and lots of street cars. It seems more and more of a driving game with racing elements. The tagline on the video doesn't even mention racing!
I repeat: Realism is not measurable. For you rF2 and LMU are very realistic, not for the 80% of sim racers who prefer the realism of AC/ACC. I can find you many opinions of real drivers who see AC/ACC as the most realistic simulator. Although I could also find similar opinions in most simulators, but as I say AC/ACC has the largest consensus in terms of positive opinions. For you the opinion of others does not count, you think they are wrong. After all all simulators have shortcomings in physics and each person feels the perception of realism differently. When ISI abandoned the project and s397 picked it up the first thing they "improved" was the tire contact being much more forgiving, more grip. rF2 fans criticized these settings, supposedly they were making driving easier by making it more arcade/less realistic. Now everyone wants these settings to appear in all cars. What was not realistic now is. Realism has many interpretations. Gran Turismo/Forza are considered good driving games but not simulators, people don't spend thousands of euros on a good simulation set to play these games, they use their gamepad to have fun. Forza is a PC game and its impact is minimal. For consoles it is a very popular game since the player's intention is not to feel like a dinosaur driver but simply to have fun.
