So... is it considered "using assists" when turning on TC/ABS on cars that use them IRL? Does that qualify as driving in "pro mode" (as it's called in AC)? AC has some cars with TC and/or ABS by default (when "factory" is selected for realism), but you always have to turn it on in rF2. In other words, would a world championship endurance league have TC/ABS enabled for the LMPs (and GTE for that matter)? I would think so...
It honestly just depends on the people running the league and that's the way the game's set up. The biggest issue with the TC and ABS in rfactor1/2 (TC especially) is that it's pretty heavily simplified from what you'd get in a real car to the point that, at full, it's way too helpful. Still, again, it really comes down to what drivers prefer to run. The only thing I'll say on this is that no driver who's been playing for more than ten minutes has an excuse to use steering help or stability assistance. I used to race rF1 and rF2 with a goddamn keyboard and I didn't need those. I remember a lot of people using steering/stability help simply for the very significant speed boost it used. One guy on the forum we raced with set up a server and was 4 to 5 seconds a lap faster than us all through practice and qualifying. Then his server started playing up. We restarted with another member hosting who disabled those features (that our former host *swears* he wasn't using) and suddenly he was 6 - 7 seconds slower everywhere. Hell, for the brief time we ran a Megane league almost everybody abused them. I remember being really frustrated with my ability because I was running very near the back in the first couple of races. I didn't use either steering help or stability assistance even as a keyboard racer because I didn't strictly need them to get around and assumed everyone else (most of whom were using wheels) was being honest about such things too. We'd basically collectively agreed that you don't use such aides unless you need them. Despite that gentlemen's agreement the moment we instituted a rule banning steering help and stability assistance I was suddenly easily racing at the front.
Yup, there are weight penalties for using aids, but if the car is meant to have it, those penalties aren't entered into the car data and used. So I think the Camaro has abs, no weight penalty if you use it.
When you are looking at the garage options for the latest indycar, there are 'electronic aids' options. They are not active yet but later on I reckon those features will just be part of the car, as they should in my view
Whatever happened to driver skills? Its a sim, sure, but no-one is going to hurt themselves by not using them and could even benefit from not using them in tougher leagues later on. Even when using aids, the weight penalties applied I would seriously doubt 1. slow the drivers down that much to deter anyone and 2. the lack of mistakes the the aids make possible, over a race distance, far outweigh any penalties applied for using them...not only time either. Increased tyre wear and flat spotting come to mind. For anyone using a g25/27 will attest, flat spotted tyres are a nightmare to drive with. For mine I'll continue to drive without. Its a much more satisfying experience doing a fast lap without aids than with.
Is the elitist type response, but if someone wants to run a league using realistic rules and car tech, then that's cool. It always made me wonder seeing people simming with the big v10 f1 cars. Meant to have all kinds of aids, probably would be bloody terrible to drive without IRL. Yet some would still apply that attitude. Riding bikes with no aids looks fun, least he's not a noob aid user XD
Not necessarily as the cars of the early 2000s (before lift numbers slumped in '05) had some serious downforce and due to the tyre war the grip from the rubber was really good. I recall a NASCAR driver commenting on their drivability that the 2004 Williams was "like a slot car", that you just put it where you want and it obeyed. Also, the V10s weren't the torquiest engines in F1 history. No doubt they take a true expert to drive properly but there have been trickier cars, including the current generation.
I am far from elite...LOL I'm 51 and seconds off the pace, so realistically I am one that should be in favor of them. I simply get absolutely no joy from driving a vehicle that removes the skills of controlling a vehicle with basic abilities of hand/foot eye co-ordination. Aids overcome many things, poor setups, poor skills, poor accountability, NO challenge. I don't admire people who can lap 2-5 seconds a lap faster than me if they use aids of any kind. I admire non car assisted skill. It gives me a goal. Lets face it. Slamming your brakes on with little fear of lock up needs no skill and is no challenge. Accelerating hard out of a corner of a high horsepower vehicle without thought of burning up your rear tyres OR spinning, again where is the challenge in that? I accept that todays vehicles have these aids and therefore can be used. Definitely useful in the real world where slamming into a wall at high speed is disadvantageous to your health is NOT the case in a sim. I simply don't see any need for them in a sim...period. Learners may need them initially, but learning without them is far more beneficial in the long run. Its simply my opinion. I'm a grumpy old man.. LOL I'm meant to be obtuse (annoyingly insensitive).
Yeah, I'm basing it off what I'd read over the years. Big race hp numbers iirc, 800 upwards, plus with grooved tyres. I recall drivers saying they were all about using the engines, getting the car pointed out and nailing it. Might be in the 2005 year, with what you say about the downforce. Yeah, I wouldn't expect it to be tricky for the real drivers, more looking at the guts I'd see struggling around being hardcore with no aids. Cool if they want to, but I don't see it as cheating in a sense that they used lots of aids. Nowadays, it's the reverse, I'll drive them without, that's how they drive them.
It's definitely not cheating if it's needed for any real control and I'd say it's justified if it's on the car and the league actually allows it. I try to go without all the same but it shouldn't be required all the time. Hell, I do remember one occasion with... I think it was F1 Challenge... a friend's little brother, maybe 6 years old, wanted to play so I turned on all the driving aids including auto braking. All he had to do was hold the accelerator and press < and > at corners. He managed to roughly get the car around the track and was delighted, he felt like he was a pro. Great to watch.
Yes, let it be said I'm in the same group, I don't use them fo my driving. But i can't look at them all as cheating, when I'm here to simulate racing cars that have the systems.
I am a no assists guy except I do cop out on auto clutch... However it must be mentioned that traction control and ABS are very much part of real life racing, particularly GT3 in the various GT ProAm series' (eg. Blancpain, Hankook, WEC and most national level championships) This category of racing caters for drivers of all levels from seasoned professionals to slow amateurs and quite a few +50 old timers, so you need cars that are robust and 'easy' to drive by a huge range of differing talents. Real life assists and aids on modern GT cars in fact have not only saved this type of racing but also bolstered entries across the globe and made it into a very popular and growing aspect of the sport. Example is power steering: without power steering more than 50% of GT drivers would not cope- and you can dial in or dial out the power steering strength in most modern GT cars. A friend of mine who runs Dragon Racing Team (McLarens and Ferraris) says that TC and ABS prevent accidents and also save the car from major damage - importantly this reduces costs. Thus if a sim GT car is properly modeled on a real life car it should allow you to dial in TC and ABS in the setups menu and from in cockpit as per the real life cars they mimick. Interesting: Technical Director for Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing , Jay O’Connell, who’s been everywhere from CART to Formula 1 to the Ford GT, explains the BMWALMS Z4s, explains: “We’re not allowed to use ABS, yaw controls . . . no stability control. Traction control is allowed but that’s about the only electronic aid that can be used. All these cars have power steering, like GT3." "GT3 has traction control, ABS, and yaw control as it’s for semi-professional drivers who don’t have enough skill. All the cars in the class are the same weight, 2745 pounds, and we all have the same size tires, brakes, and general track width.”
I avoid using assists once I'm adapted to the car. It's no shame to use it tho, I'd rather race with 20 others that use it than with 0 because none of them would like to race without it. Sometimes I'm just tired and I'll turn the assists on too. And there are cases people should use but they don't idk why. Like the Mini cars in SCE. Reiza said the cars in real life use ABS and to have a real experience you should use it too. People just turn it off and whenever you race online with them you see part of the grid locking wheels for half of the braking distance -_-" I saw once some guys discussing the ABS (or was TC, or both, I think it doesn't have one of them) of a LMP2 car on Twitter. It was pretty cool to find out the assist is adjusted for each corner in the track via GPS and also depending on driver preferences.
F1 cars of the early-to-mid 2000s weren't slot cars on rails. Only to someone not pushing it is it on rails. Yes, modern day (lets say from the early-to-mid 2000s onwards) F1s and most racecars in general are generally less sensative and less "wild and beastly" in their driving characteristics/behaviour than before. In that sense, yes, they are more stable and easier/faster to get up to speed with which often results in new drivers getting up to speed in a much shorter amount of time than before, and also generally results in time-gaps between teammates being more consistently tighter than before. Even so, no F1 car is on rails because it's only relative and even with modern day handling/stability sophistication of general racecar behavior, things can still go very wrong, very quickly. Do you know how many people would come drive an F2000 car ("school" setup - softer overall setup, less edgy, steet tyres, less engine power, no anti-roll bars, etc.) and say the car was on rails because they can yank the steering around turns, do all sorts of aggressive stuff, can't believe how fast they go around corners, hammer the throttle down, etc.? Trust me, those cars weren't on rails and some days we had 2 or 3 spins on the same lap but other drivers perceived them to be on rails (the beauty of real life physics where cars can be super low grip but still feel planted and on rails unlike most sims which, in a low grip tricky car, means spins or slides even when driving at 5/10s, even when adding minute amounts of steering lock, even when...etc. [ahem ISI physics engine ahem]). In that MotoGP video, unless it was from a good few years back, the bikes in it are all running tons of electronics lik traction control, anti-wheelie control, trickery on the downshifts/braking/clutch and all sorts of stuff. In fact the "electronics package" is sadly a huge part of MotoGP lately.
On the subject of "traction control", can a different aid like pedal maps be simulated in a mod in rfactor 2?
Yup, in that vid they all are, except that the guy coming behind managed to just cut the rear wheel speed sensor on the second place bike. Stupidly, Honda decided that it should default to full power mode...So he went for the throttle and had the full 270hp engine only under wrist control XD It's needed for the bikes really, the old 2 strokes had roughly around 160-170hp with no aids, but now the factory bikes are pushing way more, 270 is the number trotted around. They have gone to spec software and hardware now, so reduced in functions, but they will always have it. Many of the riders have said they would be near impossible to race well without them, not to mention even more dangerous.
Looks like a hell of a ride XD Also looks like me in sims sometimes, lots of twitch oversteer moments, so finely on edge lol
TC cars and aids .. "..... that is a nice matching handbag you have there. " lol That is why TC cars have a "Sport" setting...........for real men ! hehehe
Yes, very much so. One can map the filling degree in 16 steps of pedal travel for every rpm line (most of the time they are steps of 250 rpm). So step three for instance, the filling is 0.33 and step five is 0,79. In this case, not even being 1/3th the pedal travel and the filling is 79% (at that rpm line you are working on.) This is a great thing in the newer engine models; you can make a 200bhp car feel like more or a 1000bhp car feel like less; with this "feature" alone, you can alter 99% of the engine characteristic! You could make it as an upgrade even. It's not possible to change it when the track is loaded though. In the picture below, you can see at 1 and 2 what is possible, but you can do that in game with your own throttle response adjustment. 3 and 4 however, you can not do in game. You can build those and 1000001 other "setups". Note that the upping line is "filling degree" and not throttle opening. There is a difference although slightly and that has to do with changing airflow, resistance and valve timing. So; you could take a normal car and give it valve timing adjustment with rpm for instance too. Once I made a tool for this; one could see the line (or per rpm step) and adjust it, letting the program give you all the values. There are 1296 values in a 20.000 rpm car There was not much demand for it back then and I can't find it anymore, so can't show you. View attachment 19039
