A quasi-objective way to judge physics of sim cars



Same slide but in car view.
 
Try in the inner circle, and do little lefts-rights to have a better control.
Try to find what inputs variations change the behavior.
 
'Little lefts-rights', create huge left-right spins lol. I know what you mean, but in a slide like this once you get it going it's pretty hard to control the line of the car, not impossible but very hard.
 
At 11 seconds (steady steering input), a slight left turn of the wheel would reduce the slip angle and increases turning radius. Turning right (more counter steer) would increase the slip angle and tighten the turning radius. Throttle inputs need to be spot on in both cases. It's possible to reduce/increase slip angle while maintaining the same turning radius, but its very difficult.

Edit: initially during a slide turning the wheel left (away from the direction of the slide) would make the car go left, but eventually it would end up on a larger turning radius. Speed also plays a huge roll in the direction you go. If you give it more throttle and counter steer and you do it perfectly, it can increase your speed and widen your arc. I'm not sure how realistic any of this is because it seems overly hard and complicated. It's just what I've found.
 
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It's interesting to compare the two vids. In my video, my throttle inputs aren't very steady. I'm trying to find the balancing point and I'm going up and down with the throttle, and as a result look how the is car wobbling around mid slide. Paul's throttle inputs are smooth and within a much finer margin, the car is balanced, and if you look at it from the outside it look as solid as a rock.

Obviously it takes lots of skill, but the better the hardware, the more accurate feed back you get and the finer you can modulate you're inputs.

Most of the time when I try to drift around a track, I've come to realize that the rear tires are either accelerating or decelerating (i.e gripping a little and not spinning freely). I think this causes the the front of the car to push and the fronts to scrub. I think it causes the 'nose of the car toward the inside of the track', and the 'more counter steer spins the car out' abnormalities that have been discussed. It's quite hard to get the tires spinning freely at the right rate, because there isn't much sensation through the pedals (none) and no sensation through the wheel. You can go by sound, but I think a lot of the time when you think you're doing a burnout, really the rear tires are gripping longitudinally a fair bit.

If you can find the exact point were the rear tires are spinning nicely, and then hold that point, the counter steering should feel and respond naturally. I'm with Paul in thinking that imprecise ffb wheels makes it much harder, and combined with difficulty in holding a steady burnout, I think this is what is causing the strange car behavior and making holding a car sideways feel so hard.

Spinelli, you've said that you believe that there might be an underlying issue with the isimotor physics in the way that it models inertia and that the inertia mysteriously changes direction toward the inside of the track. This might well be the case, and I can entirely see your point because of the way the cars behave in a slide, but something like inertia should be pretty well known math (or maybe not, I don't really know), however, tires are extremely complex so logically I lean toward the tire argument. I bet if you went into the physics model and you reduced rear tire longitudinal grip, and increased front tire lateral grip, you could slide around much more predictably (like LFS). The point is I don't think it's to do with inertia, I think its tires.
 
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green serpent said:
...
Most of the time when I try to drift around a track, I've come to realize that the rear tires are either accelerating or decelerating (i.e gripping a little and not spinning freely). I think this causes the the front of the car to push and the fronts to scrub.... but I think a lot of the time when you think you're doing a burnout, really the rear tires are gripping longitudinally a fair bit.

If you can find the exact point were the rear tires are spinning nicely, and then hold that point, the counter steering should feel and respond naturally. ...

... I bet if you went into the physics model and you reduced rear tire longitudinal grip, and increased front tire lateral grip, you could slide around much more predictably (like LFS). The point is I don't think it's to do with inertia, I think its tires.
Click to expand...

I was thinking EXACTLY the same: too much longitudinal grip while spinning.
And it must be true because the cars are always accelerating, even when in a "perfect" slide.
Chris Harris cars don't accelerate that much...
 
Nothing to do with FFB, your wheel, your driving skills. It has nothing nothing to do with the driver or his inputs. And it is not even close to the way a vehicle behaves into, during, and out of slides in LFS, AC, NKP, let alone reality.
 
Jamie Shorting said:

Click to expand...
Is that Shift 2 Unleashed?
 
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