A possible problem with simple editing of RF2 files

Now with the new way RF2 handles mods and makes it "cleaner" as such (which is a good thing!) it does unfortunatley mess things up a bit for those of us who like to "Tinker" with stuff, example:

With rF1 if I wanted to change the Eyepoint in the cockpit.ini file I could do so easily enough, no problem. If I wanted to alter the GDB of a track for some reason then I could...although this would (possibly) cause mismatches I had the original file backed up to Replace into the Locations/Track folder if I ever wanted to race online with that track...again no problem just a bit of copy 'n paste!


Now with RF2 it appears (and correct me if I''m wrong and looking a total tit!) that you need to Extract File X from the MAS, alter File X, repackage File X in the MAS and play....oh wait no you cant because you need a ModID so RF2 recognises the package. Simply extracting and reapplying a file does not work (I just tried).....so I've hit a brick wall!


I'm hoping I'm wrong and missed something obvious, but at the moment I see the simplest of tasks in rF1 being a right PITA for RF2, and the above examples are just a fraction of the things I would've altered over the years in rF1 and will no doubt want to do in the future with RF2....editing VEH/Talent/Sound/AIW files etc etc etc

So please tell me it is Simple and I've missed something, or if I'm right then I'm gonna need Two installs, one for Offline and one for Online play....in the slightly changed words of Jaws...We're Gonna Need A Bigger hard Drive!

 

You're going to need to get modIDs (how much of a PITA it's going to be depends on how fast you can get them) for the modifications you're going to do, but you only need to package the affected files and refer to the core component. That way you can use your modified tracks/cars in singleplayer (or multiplayer if you give the mod you've done to others) and still have the original for normal multiplayer racing.

 

So what about the people who are making or editing a mod? During development you need to repackage the affected files for every tweak? Even if you're running standalone only?

 

Ok have a read of the tutorial posted about this, it answers most if not all of the above.

But in short, you can be testing the mod in MODDEV area of the install without worrying about packaging.

You dont NEED a MODID to create a MOD for personal use, just if you intend to play it on MM.

But yes if you want to tweak within the MAIN Singleplayer area of the game, get familiar with Packaging.

I have posted my thoughts here http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...ith-same-content?p=33139&viewfull=1#post33139

Not sure if the added inconvenience is worth the mismatch correction....BUT as I posted in that link...maybe the benifits will be made available to us in the future.

 

Also remember that modID and submitID are two different things.

Just about anything is worth the mismatch correction...

 

*edit

 

Well said.

For those that tinker, you will probably keep everything over in the DEV area, even pass this around among other tinkerers.

If you want to have other people try it that don't like the "mess", then go through the trouble of packaging it up for them. If you want to put it online, then get a ModID and make it easier for everyone. Its more work, but only when you want to publish but in my mind, well worth it.

 

imo theres more of a mess now...i have to have what is essentially the same thing in 3 places (download,rfmod,install) bloating my hard drive

 

Yes I agree with some of here. The new system is not very functional for modders, and not players who like to adjust sounds, cams, skins, etc.

There is not much point using developer version as it seems to work differently as the main game. Dev mode is very buggy atm. It should be done so that there is only one core game, and when you choose to enter "dev mode" it loads external element which gives the dev tools available. Now we have same files twice at two different locations. Also, If I want to play and dev' at the same tracks, they also need to be in two different locations, in two different formats! This is just so not working like this.

Then again, testing mods in actual game is way too difficult and inconvenient because having to do rfmod components.

In perfect world you just could throw all the loose files to the old school "GameData" folder and test it out, and then if you like you can pack and release it as rfmod. And that should be optional in cases you like to encrypt your mod or ensure online compatibility. You could still share mods as loose files, and game would read them like in rF1. And you only had ONE game installed, which has optional dev mode feature.

I am sorry to say this, but I feel this all is quite a mess. Both modder and player perspective. Damn I miss rF1 functionality.


*I just lost few hours to get the Belgium track to run in Dev mode, and finally now that it runs it is very buggy.

 

Why do you need to have them all? Install, surely, but after installing a mod the rfmod isn't needed in the packages folder (checked with Formula Renault, it isn't needed for upgrading either) and why do you need to have it in a download folder? Install is enough, unless you plan to remove and reinstall stuff a lot, then you just need to have the rfmod somewhere handy.

 

errrm...like the packages folder?

 

If you want to, but the point is that unless you want to remove and reinstall them all the time, you only need to have them installed, you can throw away the rfmod after it's been installed.

 

mate...lets say you delete them...what kind of a mess will you have in 6 months when you have say 50 rfmods running which will easily happen if you run in a league..i think about twice as much mess than if you leave them in the packages folder

 

Thanks Slothman I will read up on Packaging and your post in a bit, sure no Tinkering I do will be for anyone else just my for Offline joy! At the moment the effort just to get the smallest of things working (Eyepoint for pure example sake) is a little worrying but I'll have a good read up and gather my thoughts on it all, hopefully it will become more clear, thanks again.

Thanks for the reply Gjon and yes again I think its a lot Cleaner doing it this way for sure, but as Johannes Rojola says so well above it was the ease of use in rF1 that I fear will be lost a touch...but again I shall read more about it all and get a clear picture of Packaging. I only hope DevMode runs similar to Single Player mode so in theory I should never run SP again after I've got my Tinkering complete...we shall see!

 

Just to reaffirm before i read anything else, as someone has pointed out in another thread...what if you dont like the Sounds of a mod that you race online with, are you now "Stuck" with them because you cant change them for Online racing?....if so then there is definatley a problem as all manner of Mods get released with things people like to Tinker for Online play, simple things like Sounds are one of them!

anyway....onto reading about Packaging!

 

so far I'd rather have had the mismatches

 

ok think we're screwed, heres a pure example:

rFactor1:
1) Dave releases Sound file X for Mod Y as the original Sounds were not upto standards
2) Simply replace original SFX file
3) You can race online but you hear new sounds form file X instead whilst others hear original sounds, everyones happy.

Rfactor2:
1) Nigel releases Sound file X for Mod Y as the original Sounds were not upto standards
2) You cant add these to the MAS file as you need the original MOD team to do it and release the updated Mod
3) Mod team does'nt want to do that as they are a) Reluctant to use someones elses Sounds, b) hard to get hold of, c) Defunct!
4) You create your own Mod but cant race it ONLINE against others as they all want to use the Original Mods Sounds
5) ....... What Now?

From the Packaging PDF Tutorial:
… change the files within a .mas file of a component? Absolutely not. What would happen is that
when you alter the .mas file its signature will change, and while it would work for offline play, when
you went to join an online server you would not be allowed to because of the data difference. This is
what prevents mismatches. If you want to alter the data in a mas file you must unpack the mas,
change the data, pack up a new .mas and create an entirely new component OR create an update for
the original component.
… place loose files in a component directory and have those get used instead of what’s in the .mas
files? Again, no. Loose files are completely ignored (except when used in the “moddev” directory
structure where mod asset creation occurs). Only content in the component’s .mas files is used. If
you want to change or alter the data in a component you must either unpack, alter, repack, and build
a new component, or create an update for the existing component.

Right there in those two Q&As is the fundimental problem for people who like to "Tinker", simple things such as changing Sounds....AS FAR AS I CAN TELL (again....Please correct me if I'm wrong!) for racing ONLINE is now a thing of the past unless you get everyone to agree and update the Mod....which is never gonna happen because people like different things within a mod...Sounds being just one of these many little things.

So how where do we go from here?
Are we now governed by the Mod Team who releases the Mod to use it 100% as they see fit?
Meaning we cant Tinker and apply little changes that dont affect Online play?
But instead they do because we cant use the Package we've created as no one else wants too?

Which for me brings me to the final Q&A above. If it were possible to alter single files and have them override anything in the MAS file for SinglePlayer then that would be great. To be able to do the same for files which dont allow "Cheating" of any kind for Online play then that would be great too.

I fear we've hit a rather large Brickwall with this, seems the new Packaging system as good as it is has brought up more problems than intended. I fear we need a way to ensure the Main aspect of the Mods release is left intact, but for them to allow seperate changes that Servers recognise without having to SubmitIDs all over the place and have 15 variants of the same Mod.

My heads hurting, time for a lie down!

 

MarcG you are quite on topic right there.

This is how I understand how it works, and supposedly it really does. I remember once in rF1 I downloaded great single car mod, but cockpit camera was messed up and It looked like I sat on rear seat. No prob, few secs and I fixed it by changing one number in cam-file.

I see this new rF2 system really troublesome, and we haven't even seen all yet. And I really doubt it solves more problems than it creates...

 

it was probably a good idea in a controlled environment like the ISI offices and closed beta...but not in the real world im afraid

 

MM, I reckon this is what this part of the testing is for.

Personally I think the concept and ideas behind it are brilliant and commendable and much needed. However I think its application is a touch off.

I can see this costing a lot of people rFactor 2 play time. Gone will be the days of an improptu run at the end of a night with a freshly released track on an existing car.

Personally a LOT of people will find it hard to get past the point of "I have the content on my PC, why do I have to go through this bother to combine them in SINGLE PLAYER let alone Multiplayer". Sure they can use the All cars and all mods but it should be easier than this.

I do some good advantages in it current state, but also it doesnt improve on past issues and creates some more.

I am kind of withholding absolute judgement on the system until more info is known (ala its not fully implemnted like other areas of the BETA) as I have read from ISI that the skin pack issue will be addressed in future updates as it wasnt implemented here.

So I am waiting to see, but if it doesnt change, this is going to cost rFactor some followers I reckon.