A packaging overview & tutorial video...

We will be making a push soon to finish up our weather implementation for the upcoming GT's. We'll be hashing this sort of thing out when that happens.

But yes, this is the sort of thing we're talking about for sure :)
 
Thanks for providing the info Scott and Luc, I appreciate it especially in light of some of the replies and questions in other threads. ;)

Like apparently many others I'm worried about having to package cars AND tracks together in a mod and would like to see them seperated. Disregarding it maybe being cumbersome, I'm worried about the effect that would have on the modding community. As both of you undoubtedly know doing a track is quite a lot of work. As the creator you rely on it getting included into other people's mods to get them distributed online. Instead of having "Ethone's Track A" it ends up in "Collection of other people's work by DUDE who put in five minutes of clicking to apply for the SigID".
Having to plaster the loading screen isn't a good substitute and doesn't address the issue that the mod bringing your track to the user will not bear your name but someone else's. I feel it would relegate us track creationers to second fiddle which I find ironic seeing how much effort they require and how few track creationers there are because of it.
 
Yeah, there's a misconception there. You CAN release cars and tracks separately. They don't HAVE to be in a mod. Packing them into a mod is a convenient way to deliver multiple components in one package. The idea of the modID in this first incarnation is so that the components can be used online. But we already have the infrastructure in place to break these out in the future. It's not always going to be this way, but this was a safe place for us to begin.

Really, if you think about it, you could consider a modID as a pre-made list of assets for the dedicated server, which really isn't that much different than picking a car series and a few tracks to host.

We're not TOO worried about the first couple months because, other than some quick rF1 conversions there's not going to be a lot of content other than what we put out. By the time more serious work is ready to go I expect the system to have progressed a bit.

Eventually, what I see happening (and this is just my opinion based on the feedback I expect us to get) is a large repository of components--cars, tracks, UI, sounds. People will be able to download these and with a single click install them (or uninstall them, or update them). By that time I think we'll have advanced enough so that the server will send out a list of sig's that must be verified on the joining client, rather than having to rely on the modID, which by that time will be used for larger mod teams to put up full series with multiple tracks.

Or, based on feedback we may end up in a completely different direction. Point is we have this base system we're starting from and trying to stabilize, then we'll go from there. Where ever we end up it's just going to take some time...
 
Scott Juliano said:
By the way, modders, don't be afraid to let people use your components in their own mod packages. We have in mind a way to allow you to encrypt your components so the data within can't be extracted. So, you could, for example, put some "credits" on the loading screen of a track and whenever that component is used everyone will be able to see who made it. This isn't working yet, but shouldn't be too hard to do once we get to it.
Click to expand...

Credits on the loading screen is a good idea. As a league admin though I'd really appreciate it to still be able to edit loadings screens. In our leagues we usually provide trackpacks for our drivers with edited loading screens. These follow a consistent design baseline per league to add immersion on raceday. I know there's quite a few leagues out there that do the same.
Maybe the modder's credits could be provided in some kind of overlay above the (editable) loadingscreen? A hardcoded area on, say, the bottom right corner of the screen. I'd imagine it to work similarly to edited textures in rf1. If a texture is in the .mas file and there's another texture with the same specific filename in the track's folder that is the one that is displayed instead of the original in the .mas file. So that you just need the track component and you add an edited loading screen to the same folder which is therefor displayed instead of the original one. This way you'd make both the modders (credits being hardcoded) and the league admins happy.
 
Sure, the credits thing was just an example of what you COULD do obviously. Main task right now is to get the beta out there to druvers and modders, get people using the software, and start gathering some feedback... :)
 
For multiplayer you still will have to have the Mod-file in addition to the components, correct? And you will have to download it beforehand if you want to participate in that server, correct? That would mean you'd be downloading mod files much more often than to get into the servers, would it not?
Furthermore, mod files can include track files (and must have at least one). Generally people prefer the simpler option, so a mod-file including Car A and whichever tracks the mod-creator picked beats downloading components and server-specific mod-files every time you want to join a new/rotating/updated server. Hence my assumption that tracks would disappear into mod-files with the name of someone on it who spent 5 minutes downloading the components and applying for a ModID, or not get raced online at all. At least at the moment with the process as described currently.

I'm not going to throw a sissy fit about it and I realize we're just going into public beta and that things can change. But I do see that as an issue and not a misconception - unless I'm still missing something.
 
Mod files don't have to include ANY components, just references to them--a "virtual mod". That is the smallest, simplest version, and I think what most people will prefer to download, rather than grabbing larger mod packages with the same tracks over and over. In either case, yes, you are correct that components can't be used online, in the current initial configuration, unless they are at least referenced by a mod that has a modID.

And yes, this is the kind of feedback we'll be listening too and expanding the system to accommodate for sure. All I can really say at this point is we have to start somewhere :) AS with rF1 I think we're going to have some growing pains with these new systems, but I also think we'll sort through the major issues quickly during the open beta period before the good quality mods start arriving (rather than the quick, simple rF1 conversions you'll see a lot of at first). In any case, I appreciate you're willingness to go steady on and see how things progress...

Cheers...
 
The more I read from you about that new mod management system, the less I'm woried about it. I mean, right now it doesn't sound as bad as it sounded at the beginning, when Tim gave us first general description (or Gjon? Sorry, don't remember right now) :)
 
No, it's not bad at all, it's just basic at the moment. The one thing you will be immediately happy with, I'm sure, is how easy it is to add new mods, update them, and uninstall ones you don't like. And knowing that you have exactly what you need to join a server reliably (and what you may be missing if you can't) is great. The rest is just making that system work with the needs of the community...
 
Scott Juliano said:
No, it's not bad at all, it's just basic at the moment. The one thing you will be immediately happy with, I'm sure, is how easy it is to add new mods, update them, and uninstall ones you don't like. And knowing that you have exactly what you need to join a server reliably (and what you may be missing if you can't) is great. The rest is just making that system work with the needs of the community...
Click to expand...

It is the bit that we spent doing so much on race nights with friends... it took so much time! Now it sounds like it will be a "breeze" in comparison! :)
 
So what happens when you update a mod to a newer version 1.0 to 1.1, does the old 1.0 version go to the bit heaven and it cannot be used anymore in any mods or is it still somehow usable?
 
What is not completly clear to me is wether you have to download a 'Mod' in order to join a server??? What I mean is, if you have all the needed components, can you join a server, or do you have to download a mod file pointing to those components?

PS: I hope my question is clear, I was struggling a bit to find the right words :p
 
Haven't read all posts but I completly trust in you ISI. You are modders by yourself and know the goods and the bads around rf1. You will do the right thing. :cool:
 
Nimugp said:
What is not completly clear to me is wether you have to download a 'Mod' in order to join a server??? What I mean is, if you have all the needed components, can you join a server, or do you have to download a mod file pointing to those components?
Click to expand...

You would need to download the small mod file that ties them together; your game then uses that modID to match with what the server has and lets you join.

Early in this thread I suggested this was really just an extra layer of complexity, when it wouldn't seem too difficult to make the server report directly which components are required and have the client check for those components, which eliminates the need for the 'virtual mod' file.

However, Scott's later responses better explained ways in which this system is better suited to expansion, so we wait and see. It does add an extra step but it's not a difficult one, so any benefits that become apparent will quickly outweigh it.
 
Lazza said:
You would need to download the small mod file that ties them together; your game then uses that modID to match with what the server has and lets you join.

Early in this thread I suggested this was really just an extra layer of complexity, when it wouldn't seem too difficult to make the server report directly which components are required and have the client check for those components, which eliminates the need for the 'virtual mod' file.

However, Scott's later responses better explained ways in which this system is better suited to expansion, so we wait and see. It does add an extra step but it's not a difficult one, so any benefits that become apparent will quickly outweigh it.
Click to expand...
I have been reading all posts, but since english isn't my native language I had some difficulty understanding how it was explained. To me it wasn't completly clear if you needed the mod file, it is clear now, so thanks for your answer :)

PS: I also hope that one day the server only looks if you have all the components installed, instead of also the mod file.....
 
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