A packaging overview & tutorial video...

Hi!

You should really consider of making a system where you assign separate ID's for tracks and mods(cars). That would allow players spontaneously to drive on various combinations of cars and tracks. In rF1 online racing the problem never was "oh I have that car, but I don't have that track", but the problem was small alterations to either cars or tracks. When you have separate ID's assigned to cars and tracks, you can easily see that you have up-to-date installations of those addons. You just don't need one ID for car+track combination.

The strength in rF1 always was that you can take any car and race it in any track. And because tracks and cars are completely separate elements in the game, they should not have shared ID's. Even in rF1 having mismatch between any car and any track is almost impossible (Once a GMC bus didn't fit inside garage :p).

You could probably have optional ID for some car+track combinations to make for example league/championship racing easier. But I'm not convinced that it would be necessary.
 
Scott Juliano said:
I'd like to "quickly" give you an overview of the packaging system as it currently stands:
The packaging system is our effort to reign in the mismatch madness, as well as an attempt to control content cheating.
QUOTE]

That's a VERY good thing!!!
Click to expand...
 
Hi Scott,

Many thanks for your quick reply and for confirming the current situation.
As you say, the whole purpose of the beta is to find out what works and what doesn't, both techincally and in terms of usablility.
Needless to say, I agree with Johannes and hope separate IDs for tracks & cars is the path we go down in future.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how rF2 hangs together and very much appreciate ISI's openess to the communty's views before these things become set in stone.
There may be whining from others but I'm certain there is a quiet majority who are grateful for the opportunity to contribute in a positive way.

Sincere thanks,
ITT.
 
Johannes, track and car components do have separate signature ID's. It's only the mod ID that binds them together. As you see, there is an underlying infrastructure there that can allow us to get more liberal with how we use these components, both online and offline. We can really take this in whatever direction we find is necessary to suit the needs of the online community. We just had to start somewhere, in its most basic form, figure out what works when it's put into practice, and then we can progress from there.
 
IT-Trader -- yes, we expect a bit of consternation about some of the changes we made and their current implementation. What we hope is that most people will understand that these new systems, the packaging system specifically, are BIG changes and we just have to take a methodological approach to them... :)
 
Thanks for the informations Scott.

One thing i couldnt figure out, is whether or not we are still able to modify texures without damaging any ID or signature.
So, if for example i want to create a new track banner texture showing my league logo, will i still be able to use that track online,
or do i need to repackage it?
 
6e66o said:
Thanks for the informations Scott.

One thing i couldnt figure out, is whether or not we are still able to modify texures without damaging any ID or signature.
So, if for example i want to create a new track banner texture showing my league logo, will i still be able to use that track online,
or do i need to repackage it?
Click to expand...

For something like this, what you would need to do is create an update component for said track. In this case you could add a new .mas file called "trackname_logoupdate.mas" and put all the updated textures into that, and then create TrackComponent_v1.1.

I have a packaging document that explains how to do this.

Chances are your league would be creating a unique mod for the tracks/cars you'll be running, so you would use the v1.1 of the component in that.

Shortly, if it's not in already, we'll be providing a way to add car skins to a user sub-folder that can be used both online and offline. A bit further down the road we could add the same type of thing for track textures as well. But for this first incarnation this is the way you would have to make those updates...

We understand that some of the changes we've made to rF2, especially in the area of packaging, will seem a bit cumbersome to work with at first. As we get more feedback, and begin to add more features to the base system, things will become more streamlined...
 
If i understood you right, then any texture modification will mean that i cannot run that track online,
unless i repackage it and release it as a new/different version?
Although i understand the reasons behind it, that seems like a lot of effort..

Scott Juliano said:
we'll be providing a way to add car skins to a user sub-folder that can be used both online and offline.
A bit further down the road we could add the same type of thing for track textures as well.
Click to expand...
That would be great.
 
At the moment, it is a bit of an effort, yes, but please keep in mind that this system is only the base for any future evolutions. Because of my modding past, I always looked at the system from a texture update modder's POV, and I agree that simple texture updates will require more effort, initially.
 
Is it still possible to use changed texture files only for one user, so if i use a darker road texture just for me can i use that, or would that also require a package and id?
 
jumi2 said:
Is it still possible to use changed texture files only for one user, so if i use a darker road texture just for me can i use that, or would that also require a package and id?
Click to expand...

Loose files are only used while in Developer mode, so CURRENTLY it would require a component update. Again, further down the road we could allow for things like logo texture texture changes and such to be read. The first order of business is to get loose car skins allowed to be added, which I found out just a few moments ago isn't quite ready yet, but is close. Mainly it requires directory structure support to work. So, if loose skins aren't in the first beta release, they will come in an update shortly after I'd imagine. User created HDR profiles do currently work, just fyi

Edit: just in saying though, we will have to be picky about what can and can not be changed. For example, you could alter the spec level of a track by way of texture changes so that it would be easier to see the groove in low sun angles, which could be considered a cheat online. So, we will have to be careful about what can and can't be altered, and when those alterations can be used. Again, this is one of the reasons we have to proceed carefully as we add features...
 
The game doesn't load loose files anymore the way it did in rF1, so texture updates will HAVE to go through the packaging system the way things work right now. Again, the system can and will be expanded/fine-tuned during development.

Bah, Scott beat me to it :) .
 
Sounds a little bit more complicated than rf1 to me. But i can be wrong^^

Does this mean, that i needed a mod double? One for Development and Offline, and the same Mod again for Online?
 
Gridgirl said:
Sounds a little bit more complicated than rf1 to me. But i can be wrong^^

Does this mean, that i needed a mod double? One for Development and Offline, and the same Mod again for Online?
Click to expand...

No, no. When you develop content for rF2 you will use loose files as you did in rF1. When the component or mod is finished it is packed up for other people to download and install. They can use the same mod both on and offline. Make sense?

And it's not really more complicated other than the extra steps you need to do to pack things all together. Creating the content is basically the same...
 
Scott Juliano said:
Edit: just in saying though, we will have to be picky about what can and can not be changed. For example, you could alter the spec level of a track by way of texture changes so that it would be easier to see the groove in low sun angles
Click to expand...
If you are that picky, using different HDR sets could also be considered cheating :)

IMO too much restrictions cause more cons then pros.

Considering that i used to change textures on pretty much every track i downloaded (there are exceptions of course),
i really hope we will get that freedom back to modify the visuals to our likings.

What about generic textures (used by all cars/tracks)?
Sparks, fire, smoke, skids, clouds (not sure if the new sky system still uses textures at all).

To me, being able to customize these things, was part of what made rF1 so great.
 
6e66o said:
If you are that picky, using different HDR sets could also be considered cheating :)

IMO too much restrictions cause more cons then pros.

Considering that i used to change textures on pretty much every track i downloaded (there are exceptions of course),
i really hope we will get that freedom back to modify the visuals to our likings.

What about generic textures (used by all cars/tracks)?
Sparks, fire, smoke, skids, clouds (not sure if the new sky system still uses textures at all).

To me, being able to customize these things, was part of what made rF1 so great.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're right about HDR, which is why we're probably going to have to force people to use whatever HDR profile the server is using unless the server allows otherwise (would be the same as forcing specific views).

Understand, we still want to progress to a point where we allow you to customize more freely. But, now that people have to basically pay for online service (even though it is overall a small amount yearly) we have a responsibility to protect their investment by allowing them the chance to race online in as cheat-free, mismatch-free an environment as possible. Besides, while there are people who like to tweak and change things (I'm one of them :) ), and we appreciate these people, there are MANY more who want to be able to simply jump onto an online server and not worry about if they have the right content to join, or getting dumped because of a mismatch. Again, we have to protect their online investment.

So, long story short, we have two crowds to cater for, and we are going to have to proceed carefully to make sure we can safely accommodate both as best as possible...
 
Is it possible to force rainspray (from cars) in server as well? Before (for example in F1C, and in not-so-realistic rF wet tracks) it was possible to turn down Special effects, which also removed rain spray and it made driving a lot easier.
 
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