A new moderator ?

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mantasisg said:
Keep this style of conduct to discord.

In my own defense, I am not the worst guy when it comes to discussions about many simracing related topics. But perhaps exactly that makes me persona non grata. Sometimes you should just read the community before expressing yourself. You can't have proper discussion with primitive or radical minds, it is mistake to even try it. Even bigger mistake is to expect some sort of respect for your willingness to discuss and share ideas, especially if it does not amplify status quo.

Wise and smart guys one by one chooses solitude, it is not worth it anymore. In internet and in real life in general. It is better than being reduced and have your energy drained, time wasted. And if you will get it right a few times, you won't get any credit, you'll probably even remain bullied if you got to that level already.

Advice to everybody who feels unwelcome and not appreciated anywhere - step back, observe. If not necessary to stay - leave. Thats nothing that most of us didn't know already. But it needs to be practiced.

Happy to know that discord is better without me, I am better without discord too.
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This exactly proves my point. Anything that proves you wrong or suggests that there might be something you are not doing right, you just blame it on the others. And to prove my point even more, it happens on the forum too. Although the platform does help with specific style of discussions, as you are showing here, the person is the most important
 
Ow well, there is a moderator over here who does have issues........blaming others they have them.
The guy gets on a power trip because he has nothing to say in real life probably and lies and accuses you of things that are total nonsense.
Trying to ban you just for sneezing if he has it in for you.

So, don't think there can't be anything wrong with moderators ;)
 
Navigator said:
Ow well, there is a moderator over here who does have issues........blaming others they have them.
The guy gets on a power trip because he has nothing to say in real life probably and lies and accuses you of things that are total nonsense.
Trying to ban you just for sneezing if he has it in for you.

So, don't think there can't be anything wrong with moderators ;)
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Now you've done it.:rolleyes:
 
Speaking of taking a break...

I started modding rF1 from day 1 until the time ISI sold rF to S397. I was fortunate enough to know Gjon Camaj having done a number of projects for ISI. When Gjon explained how rF2 would be much more restricted for editing I decided to get out of the modding business.

Last year under lock-down I decided to revive my old Windows box (Linux is my main OS) so I could fire up rF1 and run some of my favorite mods. That got the bug in me to try rF2 and think about porting the 1955 mod from rF1 (never released) to rF2.

I started researching what it takes to convert an existing rF1 mod to rF2. That is when I found out that S397 removed the ability to model a De Dion tube suspension so I scrapped that idea altogether since the cars could not be made accurately.

Then I started reading about all of the physics issues that rF2 has that have not been addressed and realized that it probably wasn't a capacity that S397 has the abilities to do. At least that is what the issue appears to be since they are "All In" on eye candy and DLC. You know the stuff that makes them money. I don't fault them for concentrating on their bottom line but they can not mistake that the physics needs to be addressed if they really want to keep customers (not just attract new users with pretty pictures).

When I installed rF2 I made a decision not to buy any DLC content until I knew that rF2 was "worthy"

Well my verdict is in. in over a year I only have about 20+ hours in rF2 (Vs 40+ in AC). The reasons are many but one of the glaring issues is the whole menu system. It literally took me 2 days to figure out how to even select a car. There is something seriously wrong when I see over and over new people coming here asking how to use the menu system. That should have been a big flashing red light to S397 telling them this is not user friendly. Yea... once you "learn" how to use the menus it works but you should not have to "learn" a menu so you can drive a car in any sim.

All the other physics issues that I read about over and over again going back YEARS is something that I just can't get past. I honestly don't think S397 is capable of addressing anything physics related (at least they have not shown they can).

I spend more time driving rF1 than I do rF2 or AC. It may not have the eye candy but it works very well, is very easy to launch and I can still mod it very easily.

I am not writing off rF2 (I still visit this forum) but have lost faith that S397 has the ability fix any of the issues other than keep adding DLC eye candy.

I will keep watching and waiting to see if they can address any of this but I will not hold my breath.

I would suggest to everyone to do as I did. Not buy any DLC until the major physics issues are addressed.


Yea I know I'll probably be banned for these comments but it is just the bare facts.

Bob





 
RusRob said:
I honestly don't think S397 is capable of addressing anything physics related
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I hope you are wrong.

But what is 100% sure, is that S397 has very clearly demonstrated during these last 5 years that the evolution of their physics engine interests them extremely little (DESPITE WE ARE ON A SIMULATION........).
That's a shame.

I have never stopped giving them many chances over the past 5 years.

If they do not decide to strongly reprioritize the physics engine in their priority list or that they are not, as you say, able to develop the physics engine (skills), then frankly this rFactor 2 will have been a good waste of time.
 
RusRob said:
Speaking of taking a break...

I started modding rF1 from day 1 until the time ISI sold rF to S397. I was fortunate enough to know Gjon Camaj having done a number of projects for ISI. When Gjon explained how rF2 would be much more restricted for editing I decided to get out of the modding business.

Last year under lock-down I decided to revive my old Windows box (Linux is my main OS) so I could fire up rF1 and run some of my favorite mods. That got the bug in me to try rF2 and think about porting the 1955 mod from rF1 (never released) to rF2.

I started researching what it takes to convert an existing rF1 mod to rF2. That is when I found out that S397 removed the ability to model a De Dion tube suspension so I scrapped that idea altogether since the cars could not be made accurately.

Then I started reading about all of the physics issues that rF2 has that have not been addressed and realized that it probably wasn't a capacity that S397 has the abilities to do. At least that is what the issue appears to be since they are "All In" on eye candy and DLC. You know the stuff that makes them money. I don't fault them for concentrating on their bottom line but they can not mistake that the physics needs to be addressed if they really want to keep customers (not just attract new users with pretty pictures).

When I installed rF2 I made a decision not to buy any DLC content until I knew that rF2 was "worthy"

Well my verdict is in. in over a year I only have about 20+ hours in rF2 (Vs 40+ in AC). The reasons are many but one of the glaring issues is the whole menu system. It literally took me 2 days to figure out how to even select a car. There is something seriously wrong when I see over and over new people coming here asking how to use the menu system. That should have been a big flashing red light to S397 telling them this is not user friendly. Yea... once you "learn" how to use the menus it works but you should not have to "learn" a menu so you can drive a car in any sim.

All the other physics issues that I read about over and over again going back YEARS is something that I just can't get past. I honestly don't think S397 is capable of addressing anything physics related (at least they have not shown they can).

I spend more time driving rF1 than I do rF2 or AC. It may not have the eye candy but it works very well, is very easy to launch and I can still mod it very easily.

I am not writing off rF2 (I still visit this forum) but have lost faith that S397 has the ability fix any of the issues other than keep adding DLC eye candy.

I will keep watching and waiting to see if they can address any of this but I will not hold my breath.

I would suggest to everyone to do as I did. Not buy any DLC until the major physics issues are addressed.


Yea I know I'll probably be banned for these comments but it is just the bare facts.

Bob
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I can totally see where you are coming from. Maybe I can explain a bit on where S397 is standing right now. One of the main problems rF2 had when they took over, was graphics. Pretty much from release it looked outdated. When they took over the call for esports was there on pretty much all sim platforms, and with the relatively small team with the complicated software, they decided to focus on that. Eye candy is going hand in hand with that for broadcasts. A lot has changed since then, and the graphics are at such a level the ask for physics has become very loud due to other sims doing a really good job too. In that time rF2 got, because of their choices and priorities, big opportunities with LeMans Virtual. This is where they showed they definitely have the ability to do physics stuff. The BMW M4 Class 1 is a very good example of what already came out of it. The LMP2 cars also had tyre physics updates which as far as I know have been received very well, although they have only been used in the LeMans Virtual round 1.

On another note from Marcel himself, in a conversation with him, he talked about the physics in NASCAR 21 ignition, and the physics stuff they have done interested him. He didn't want to go into specifics, but they are looking to get at least one of those features into rF2 too.

Another thing that has been found out, is that they have rain physics very high on the prio list right now. I think this was also said by Marcel, but could be wrong. I just hope they finish the things before they jump over to the next though. The UI being a prime example of this as you said.

With this it looks like they are shifting over to much more physics development, but like with anything, seeing is believing.


On a more general note, I am seeing a lot of posts here doom thinking that every bit of criticism leads into getting banned. I can tell you from experience that unless you go personal attacks and unconstructive hate comments, or just start bashing without stopping, it's really hard to get banned. I have been very critical of both rF2 and S397 myself, even to extreme levels, but always kept it constructive.
 
In before this thread also gets deleted because more people write actually meaningful stuff...

As time goes by, it seems more and more so that internet was already reshaped to boost up conformity of people. And it is global, politicians and corporations has already made the impact. I guess it is just too easy and just too tempting to creating preferred alternate reality of anything in a computer, extracting and manipulating the data, boosting useful people, silencing difficult people. It is easy to make all the supposedly wrong things to disappear. Anything unwelcome can stop existing within few clicks. Internet work as sorting machine of people. It has been displayed by now by some of the most powerful internet platforms how easily it can be done even with most important people, and it is hard not to believe that this is a new order in which stuff will continue working, it will be normalized. We will be expecting to be banned and censored for whatever that does not support any particular chosen ideas. In any place online. The obvious route will be avoiding conflicting thoughts, almost anything can become "too extreme". The problem is that there is no two people in the world that agrees on everything. This will result in online communities of very few regular members, the very most conforming or most matching ones, it will be absurd, and I feel sorry for those guys.

Anyway.... I am very interested in DeDion suspension... I'll PM @RusRob
 
I am not sure why people have to bring this down to a personal level and I am wondering why people feel the need to question the abilities of the dev team. I don't allways agree with how development is prioritized but some posts here are clearly crossing a line and would get you banned easily in other forums. As Remco mentioned, I found the guys from 397 allways to be very communicative, transparent and helpfull. I feel that they are sometimes even too transparent wich wakes wrong expectations. Sometimes I feel they would be better of with not writing anything and just release stuff when it's release ready. You can't please them all I guess. If you agree with their reasoning is a different story, but the success of the past few years to increase the playerbase from a few hundred die hard fans shows that they atleast did some stuff right. And as you all know, the sound makes the music. So before hiting the reply button please consider that there are other humans on the recieving ends and not some forum bots. ;)
 
Im glad im having a break and will take 1 from this forum now as well.
IM SO SICK TO DEATH OF HEARING ABOUT A LIST NO ONE HAS SEEN. ITS A FANBOY/ RF2 USER EXCUSE WITH NO EVEIDENCE 1 EVEN EXSISTS.
S397 PUT IT UP TO SHUT PPL LIKE ME UP OR PROVE ME RIGHT THERE IS NO LIST. LETS SEE IT IN 1 OF THE NEXT 2 RAODMAPS SO I DONT HAVE TO COME HERE.
 
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@Binny No need to get so upset... And you shouldn't just walk away, after all, RF2 is a game and the Dev's can take any path they choose. Some of us view rF as a racing sim but do any of us really believe this is reality... I doubt it. From my experience of building mods of real cars for real drivers they only see it as a practice tool (mainly learning tracks). All the serious drivers are using rF pro or other "realistic" simulators to simulate everything from tire compounds to wear on parts.

So no need to get all upset and walk away in a huff. There are 2 kinds of people that drive racing sims/games those that just want to drive a car around pretending they are racing and having fun and those that view this as a simulation of reality.

Most of the issues I and other see as problems are in the latter group. I think the first group of people are what you would call "Fanboys" I hold nothing against Fanboys, (I was on at one time) they are not looking as close at the sim as we are.

Cheers,
Bob
 
I forgot to add,

I am watching what happens here, the dev's clearly understand there are issues. From all the posts recently about them lets give them a chance and see if they actually address at least the glaring ones.

I'm no Fanboy by far but I will hang around and see, who knows maybe some day I will reward them by buying some of their DLC....

Cheers,
Bob
 
I have a lot of expectations regarding the tire model, with the goodyear data.

But even if they do something very well, see excellent, I do not expect a good "vision" from S397 :

S397 has made over 50 cars in the last 5 years...

I unfortunately do not believe that they will update everything, which would be a major mistake.

But I hope all the same, "hope gives life".

If they do that, I think I would say "HOURA" on all forums.
 
Binny said:
IM SO SICK TO DEATH OF HEARING ABOUT A LIST NO ONE HAS SEEN. ITS A FANBOY/ RF2 USER EXCUSE WITH NO EVEIDENCE 1 EVEN EXSISTS.
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just because you haven’t seen anything doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Various bits have been mentioned on the forums and on discord by the devs themselves.
 
hitm4k3r said:
I am not sure why people have to bring this down to a personal level and I am wondering why people feel the need to question the abilities of the dev team. I don't allways agree with how development is prioritized but some posts here are clearly crossing a line and would get you banned easily in other forums. As Remco mentioned, I found the guys from 397 allways to be very communicative, transparent and helpfull. I feel that they are sometimes even too transparent wich wakes wrong expectations. Sometimes I feel they would be better of with not writing anything and just release stuff when it's release ready. You can't please them all I guess. If you agree with their reasoning is a different story, but the success of the past few years to increase the playerbase from a few hundred die hard fans shows that they atleast did some stuff right. And as you all know, the sound makes the music. So before hiting the reply button please consider that there are other humans on the recieving ends and not some forum bots. ;)
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I also majorly disagree with bringing discussions down to personal levels, bullying and so. It has to be noticed, and it must not become a norm. It must be said, there are few chosen ones that keeps on doing that constantly and they are under the wing of devs. Speaking of developers, I am against disrespecting any developers, except perhaps Ian Bell because he got overpaid, but it shouldn't mean that you can not be criticizing them.

I would be interested to know when S397 was too transparent. So far I think they aren't even transparent to themselves. They probably don't know what will happen half a year ahead. And most definitely they have best goals at their hearts, at least some of them. We must be aware that they aren't the ones that actually created rF2, and they have a tremendous task not to only handle it, but also improve and not break it. It must be a huge task, they deserves tremendous respect whenever they do something well, but at the same time they should be getting things well, that is in my personal opinion is beyond transparent.

I am unsure what success of player base increase of past years do you mean ? There was nearly none. Numbers has risen a bit due to COVID madness locking people indoors. And then after new UI plus COVID restrictions wearing out numbers went back, and actually dropped even slightly lower than they were at the beginning of lockdowns. Ever since new UI rF2 was constantly loosing players every month up till this month, and this month is not yet over. So by this day there were no increase in last two years. Meanwhile Assetto Corsa kept on climbing up, it has massive playerbase. ACC player base grew 300% in past few years. rF2 apparently grew in some other direction that isn't about playerbase.

Look:https://steamcharts.com/app/365960
 
the difference between the other simu and rF2 is that rF2 is undergoing a bashing since its release, sometimes rightly but often by people of bad faith, here and elsewhere!

the bad publicity for years has hurt it a lot and when a product is down it's "almost impossible" to get up, add the slow development of an online "like iracing" bug fixes and physics improvements... people who don't have a lot of playing time don't even try it anymore!
the real simracer watch from time to time video but very little visible improvement, watch the crash of the cars on the competition of the mans it is not at all realistic it looks like mario kart...

I have almost 1700h on rf2, 80 on acc, 120 on AC, 130 on r3e, 300 or 400h on iracing, I love rF2 it is my favorite sim and I sometimes rage to see the slowness of development compared to others!
 
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mantasisg said:
I also majorly disagree with bringing discussions down to personal levels, bullying and so. It has to be noticed, and it must not become a norm. It must be said, there are few chosen ones that keeps on doing that constantly and they are under the wing of devs. Speaking of developers, I am against disrespecting any developers, except perhaps Ian Bell because he got overpaid, but it shouldn't mean that you can not be criticizing them.

I would be interested to know when S397 was too transparent. So far I think they aren't even transparent to themselves. They probably don't know what will happen half a year ahead. And most definitely they have best goals at their hearts, at least some of them. We must be aware that they aren't the ones that actually created rF2, and they have a tremendous task not to only handle it, but also improve and not break it. It must be a huge task, they deserves tremendous respect whenever they do something well, but at the same time they should be getting things well, that is in my personal opinion is beyond transparent.

I am unsure what success of player base increase of past years do you mean ? There was nearly none. Numbers has risen a bit due to COVID madness locking people indoors. And then after new UI plus COVID restrictions wearing out numbers went back, and actually dropped even slightly lower than they were at the beginning of lockdowns. Ever since new UI rF2 was constantly loosing players every month up till this month, and this month is not yet over. So by this day there were no increase in last two years. Meanwhile Assetto Corsa kept on climbing up, it has massive playerbase. ACC player base grew 300% in past few years. rF2 apparently grew in some other direction that isn't about playerbase.

Look:https://steamcharts.com/app/365960
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I think you really got to look back at the state of this sim before S397 took over to understand my post better. Before that happened there was nowhere near as much communication with ISI as we are having with S397 and the sim was at the very critical state. We didn't even have raindrops on the windscreen at that time and I can only recommend you what I allways recommend: boot up the last ISI build if you are able to find it somewhere and see how the product looked and worked at that time. At that time there was a rough news post for every three months for a playerbase that was smaller than what Reiza is facing nowadays in the range of around 100 players average per day and some of those news never materialized into anything and the mod support was ... there, kind of. Now you have a huge wiki that should be a nice help for anyone who wants to try to mod. I agree there are still areas that could be supported better, like plugins for Blender and stuff like that or gjed, but that's complaining on a very high level. I come from a modding community where really everything is trial and error and teaching everything on your own is the standard. So be glad that you have such a wiki written by the developer themself.

I agree, the average player numbers have been shrinking again, same as the steam reviews have been getting worse and worse the last couple of months. I would be the last one to claim that there are only love and roses with this sim, but S397 getting bought by MG and the job offerings are a pretty nice indicator that they are aware of the issues and are trying to do something about it.

You just need to take a look around what is the usual strategy in terms of community interaction in software development. Even for competing sim products like iRacing, where users would be alot more entitled to get more info on what is happening due to their subscription fees, there is far less regular information or something like Roadmaps. Neither Sector3 nor Kunos do it aswell. So we can be pretty glad that we get monthly roadmaps and weekly blogs with FAQs. It might suprise you but this isn't the norm but the exception and it takes someone to do it who get's payed for it. Just thinking that Marcel did this with the task at hand makes you realize that it's something really nice. And it's also pretty clear why this can lead to moments of too much transparency. In software development it's not unusual that priorities shift. So if you announce something to the public - like a new UI - wich can end up as a monumental tasks you start waking expectations that you need to fullfill. And I think S397 have undestood that it is sometimes better to shut up until you really have something to show.
 
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