A few changes, including refund policy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. RMachucaA

    RMachucaA Registered

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    While your on here, it has been mentioned that there will be an overhaul of how suspension animations are done, to allow better and more varied suspension setups that look more realistic, any news on that (has it been included but no documentation done)? Also, damage and all of the shader effects that go along with it. Add to that the undershadow of the car, hows that coming along? Lastly, why isnt L. adding wheel blurs to the latest cars? is there something in the works there?
     
  2. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    The thing is, that last company has a pretty big MANDATORY update every I believe quarter (4 times a year). I say big because it isnt just bug fixes and some added cars/tracks, but rather updates to the core engine itself, physics model, tyre model, graphics engine, core sound engine, etc. This way, the core game itself is continually updated, modernised and hopefully improved, rather than just "dressing up" the product with some added cars and tracks.

    Are you guys going to be able to provide updates in that sort of fashion??? Or is it going to be just the usual bug fixes and added cars/tracks??? Although I doubt you have the monthly income of iracng due to their ripoff monthly/yearly subscription and content prices, I really really hope you update/improve the fundamental core game engine itself throughout the lifetime of the product.
     
  3. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Yes. That's been the intention all along (though you won't hear a specific date, as before).
     
  4. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Will ask. :)
     
  5. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    You've never had a years subscription there have you? :p
     
  6. SCampbell

    SCampbell Registered

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    As I mentioned previously, things clearly aren't done yet. Tim, let me clarify what I said last time.

    What I meant is that putting titles to something is ambiguous. It seems as though everyone is aware there is work to be done yet, but by not calling it a beta has some people shocked. Again, obviously work continues towards a finished product.

    I may have come across as a bit harsh in my post, but that was not the intention :) The intention was that we can call the pot black but its still a pot :)

    Edit: Additional commentary:

    I bought RF1 back in late 2006 and it had been out for 1 year by that point. So, my view of what RF1 was with respect to RF2 is null and void. What I have witnessed is a major change in the thinking of the game, we are talking about a seriously different approach. The change over from F1 challenge to RF1 felt a lot less drastic than this change has been. Much of it I like, but there are still some items that need polishing. I know I can count on mod teams to provide great content because that is exactly what made rF1 so special. We can't nescessairly judge the mod either strictly on the basis of what ISI has released for cars and tracks. Although they are a great first look at the sim, they don't give you the whole picture of what is possible because, well, they are too busy developing the base code (much more important) for the game to make a perfect car or track!!
     
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    All very, very understandable, and not really the kind of post I would even normally have a reply for with the clear expression of your point of view. However, I am not sure what response you might expect? :)
     
  8. Nand Gate

    Nand Gate Banned

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    Of course it matters. IF this was some kind of a democracy (which it is not - some of you might be fooling yourselves here...), then at BEST you can hope for 1 vote amongst all the rest of us. If you pay $1 billion, I am sure ISI would love to talk with you and give you some say on direction. Other than that - get your head around the fact that you are just a random punter.

    This, is a ludicrous and incredibly self-serving view. I think WAY to many believe this junk. Once again - people do not seem aware at how entitled they sound. Childish and completely unrealistic.

    There is only one thing you are entitled to say - "PLEASE HURRY." Even then they have no reason to listen (nor should they). The rest is classified as "helpful advice" and most of these demanding and smug posts do not qualify. So much emotional hyperbole. Get a grip.
     
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  9. Nand Gate

    Nand Gate Banned

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    wha? Entitled. Having worked with the general public a lot - I know some customers are simply trouble. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do - they came here with an entitled attitude, and for every dollar they give you, you have to undergo at least $2 worth of grief and damage control. You simply cannot cater to them in business. They think that having paid some paltry sum some time ago, they are forever ENTITLED to anything - faster updates, directing the company, demanding more documentation, more support, more freebies, faster, sooner and without any complaints (or recompense) from the service provider. I am sorry - the market does not work that way.

    We early adopters pay under $2 a month, including initial cost and subs.. Exactly what does that get you - you know, out there in the real world?

    EDIT: Complaining does not equate to helpful advice.
     
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  10. Doc_

    Doc_ Registered

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    Geez Tim, I wouldnt be telling anyone you worked at iracing.
    Still spewin they got my money. One of the worst race sims ever. The physics are just plain and simply wrong and the cars do NOT respond in the correct manner to setup changes.
    The last thing we need is for rfactor 2 to be anything like iracing.
     
  11. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    @Nand and Tim its not the value of the $ that i am worried about and i was quoted from only 1/2 of my post...my point at the beginning was that last week this was a beta and now its not and it hasnt had any improvements in between...so to say its not a beta anymore and the countdown for subs whether its $1 or $100 starts from today is a big difference when Tim posted this which was the main part of my original post...

    ive spent 300+ hours working on a mod for our league for rF2...our league has spent over $1000 on servers during this beta so ISI have my full support which they have had for 10 years but to switch from beta to "evolving" without any sort of improvement from last week to now in my opinion (and you wont change it no matter your reply) is totally absurd especially when ive pulled apart every piece of this game thats possible and there isnt one area you would consider finished
     
  12. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I subscribed for 2 years, a couple years back. Also have a current 6 month trial, not my fav sim, infact I will never pay for it again unless they have some kind of under $100 for life plus all content for life deal, which obviously will never happen lol. Having said that, the quality of the physics/game wasnt the point of my post....
     
  13. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I felt the company took a different direction around the time I wasn't there anymore. :)
     
  14. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I appreciate this post more than you probably think I would. You're a lot more clear on your issues with this all. Respect it, but nothing will change the change I was told to make. :)

    The way I look at it is: Those of you who helped us so far, you get 1.5 years extra on a 1 year piece of a product. I think that's great, and if I were a customer I think I would too. Those who buy today, have the option to get a refund within 30 days, or stick around. Meanwhile everything else, including development and everything, continues exactly the same. It's that simple, really.
     
  15. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

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    and i totally understand that...i just dont think its a good way to go lol ;)...imagine if a big game review site got hold of rF2 in its current state and you said "this is a car simulator with no tyre wear, but its not a beta" rF2 would be slaughtered imo which would be bad for everyone (as we all have alot invested in ISI/rF2 being a success) not just ISI

    anyhoo cheers for now :D
     
  16. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Hilarious :D
     
  17. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    Before you quote my text, please read the whole story (all my posts). I was originally just referring to someone others text. Peace.
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I understand the same work that was going on before is continuing, so we'll get things as we would have, and that's all fine.

    What I'm not sure you appreciate, Tim, is that when we 'sign up' for a beta + 1 year (at Gold), it tends to imply that Gold version will attain a certain level. Granted no actual objectives were laid out, but you'd look at most of what is either half working or mentioned as coming (the current 'known issues' list still has a few doozies on it) and pretty much assume they'll be fully functional, or very close to it, by the time the Gold version comes around.

    So while nothing has changed on ISI's side, we've gone from a beta with some 'expected' fixes before the Gold release, to a 'current state' that will be worked on. So the question becomes, will rF2 reach what we expected of a Gold version by the time we start paying for use in June? (I'm taking the 'approx 6 months beta then 1 year' approach rather than just '18 months' as some have)

    Obviously at the end of the day we only get what we're given, and this might be a purely aesthetic change with no effect on what's going on behind the scenes. But from our point of view, where due to the lack of solid details (again, not ISI's fault) we have to make some assumptions based on what we're told, and on those grounds the posts have just shifted a bit. And while we have to accept it, it does become a money issue in June next year.

    So I think a discussion regarding this otherwise insignificant change is to be expected. At the end of the day the people who went for lifetime subscription shouldn't be too worried (it'll get there eventually, and they'll be onboard) while those who took less can always walk away if it's not heading where they wanted. Or take a break and come back when it gets there.
     
  19. Seth

    Seth Registered

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    First thanks for answering this post. you say you agree with the rest of the post excepted multi. I understand you are a small crew. but i'm very disappointed to finally have a game with great Physic and such a bad graphics (equivalent to Ferrari virtual academy) witch is from 2010.. we are in 2013 and we have to play with a game that looks like three years old... Now that i can't have refund, i'll wait for the update, but i'll specially wait for Assetto Corsa to be released to play a game with great Physic AND great Graphic.
     
  20. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    Yes you understand what I mean !!! And your conclusion is good, but, to get more buyer of the "gold" product, you need a stable product with a minimum of feature usable to race.

    And in the list I gave, If I have to sort and only keep major points, there is two major points to be resolved for a "gold" release :
    - Damage model with deformation fixed and freezed : Because in rF1 it's already working and It's one of the major feature of rF1/rF2 for the one racing online (and offline but less important).
    - FPS (Performance) of the game : Because to buy a product, It shall be possible to race in good condition, and today, when you are over 12 cars, the FPS are too low to use the product.

    So we are not so far and I'm not worry about the capacity of ISI to make a finished product one day, but for a first release, we need a solid base "finished". We need some step again to get these done.

    Many Simracers at start of rFactor (and till today) tested and never used again rF1 because the default FFB in rF1 was poor/bad configured by default. And when you discuss with these guys, they still have in mind the FIRST impression they got, and don't want to come back in rF1.

    If you release rF2 as a product now, the guys will leave rF2 because of FPS not good, and you will loose customer. So please, resolve the performance issue before thinking selling your rF2 product.

    The beta tester are not in this case, but in my case, on our league, 5% buy the game in Beta and 95% wait from us the green flag to buy the game and race together (about 50 drivers), but without decent FPS, the green flag never gone and you will loose customers. And Asseto is in the mind of these guys to compare and choice between the two games.
     
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