[REL] 1967 Endurance (Proto/Sports/GT) - modded Howston G4

Discussion in 'Third Party Content' started by woochoo, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    Well that's a great clue. Thanks so much for looking into it :) Ought to be able to put together a little update in the near future
     
  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Don't forget to disable the pitlane speed limiter on the Chappels!!!
     
  3. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    I've done some fail-fast tests on the tyres and pit stops. Setting fuel use to disabled, the AI driving my P4-esque car did 165-ish laps at LGC before the 600min timer ran down. Wear got down to 0.6-ish, and with the threshold set at either 0.9 and 0.05 the car didn't pit.
    Tried a few AI in a race and they didn't pit either. But they also didn't seem to be crashing.
    So that's all the testing I'll be doing today. No result unfortunately.
    2021-04-09_10h12_39.png 2021-04-09_12h20_02.png

    And I've just looked through what i think are the relevant pit limiter files, and none of the cars should have the pit limiter available.
    SpeedLimiter=0 in the engine ini files. So, no idea about that either, sorry
     
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  4. redapg

    redapg Registered

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    Just a Hint.
    In the DevMode, you can find Explanations for a lot of the Settings in the Files from the SkipBarber and Joesville.
    In Case of the Wear Rates, you for Example can find this:
    WearGrip1=(0.998,0.990,0.985,0.982,0.979,0.976,0.973,0.970) // Grip at 6/13/19/25/31/38/44/50% wear (defaults to 0.980->0.844), grip is 1.0 at 0% wear
    WearGrip2=(0.967,0.964,0.961,0.956,0.948,0.932,0.860,0.760) // Grip at 56/63/69/75/81/88/94/100% wear (defaults to 0.824->0.688), tire bursts at 100% wear
    And to modify the AI Behaviour, in Case of the Pit Stops for worn Tires, i would use the Settings of
    WearRate=1.50e-7 // Wear rate constant
    AIPitThreshold=0.85 // Remaining grip threshold before AI schedule to stop for fresh tires
    instead of editing the WearGrip Curves.
    Just a Suggest.
     
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  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Are we going for physics update ? I always wanted to do few other little tweaks, get cars introduction pdf done. Judging from what redapg wrote it is rather clear what to do for that particular issue.
     
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  6. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    Yeah, if it is actually simple enough to get the tyre pitstops working then we kinda have no excuse not to :D
    Happy to have some physics updates to go along with it as well
     
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  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Guys, I need some help about this AI not piting for tires thing.

    I have tried for a while to fix this issue, and couldn't. Then I decided to test rF2's own skipbarber in developer mode. The result was the same - the AI didn't pit for tires and drove till all tires reached complete amount of wear. I used 7x tire wear in a test. Could it be some rF2 bug ? Also an important thing to mention - I am on old UI, so I am multiple builds behind official rF2.

    So I wonder if possibly this is some current rF2 bug, or just some wrong game setting of which I am not aware. Also if its the issue, if it is just old build issue, or an issue with latest rF2 builds too ?
     
  8. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    Tell me what you want me to try and I will. I am running the latest release candidate.
     
  9. Rujasu

    Rujasu Registered

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    WTCR2018 mod cars pitted for tyres just fine, and I'm also using old UI. I'm also not sure if there's any other build differences there, considering the download sizes when switching. I have to wonder, though, if the true heart of the problem is not the tyre wear rates of the '67 cars. Did a 1 hour AI race around Matsusaka East with 7x tire wear and log analyzer is showing that tire durability went down 30% for the leader across the race. Converted back to 1x time, that might be slow enough to no-stop the 24h of Le Mans.

    Edit: Actually, one GT car did in fact go to 0% without pitting, so the problem is real. So at least we know it's not a universal problem, but possibly something with the mod itself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Thanks, it helps to know that it is not necessarily rF2 issue. I'll have to test other mods as well. But the fact that skipbarber didn't pit for me yesterday in devmode makes it suspicious that there may be something what could initiate some underlying rF2 issue. It would be useful to take a look at the mods in which there is no such issue.

    By the way... I don't exactly remember how often they did change tires back then IRL, I just remember that they used to be durable. IIRIC it was sometimes that F1 raced few races on same tires (but don't quote me on that, needs source to back up memory, I just searched for it and couldn't find). This being said it would be great if AI wouldn't even change tires in some pitstops, and just refuel - making those faster pitstops. I don't remember if it is doable in rF2, afaik they always change tires when doing a pitstop to refuel.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  11. Rujasu

    Rujasu Registered

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    Same settings on Silverstone with official cars, just to be sure, and they do pit for tires. Not in the last few laps, though, which makes me wonder if that's related to the issue.
    Here's the last laps of an Oreca 07. It pitted just fine earlier in the race.
    [​IMG]

    Of course, that casts doubt on that GT car observation from earlier. There were many more laps remaining when that car ran out of tires, but it's a timed race and there was less than ten minutes on the clock - same as with the official cars this time. So if anyone happens to have time to run two hours with the '67s at 7x wear, the data would be very revealing I think.
     
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  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I think the issue is kinda solved now. I got some AI cars to pit each 6-7laps in Portland with 7x wear, perhaps a bit too often now, but now it is just up to adjusting, just good to have it pitting. It was complex issue. One interesting thing is that it appears that player car which is switched to AI doesn't pit for tires... Another thing was that few cars had lower wear rate, I think by mistake, but I'll need to adjust these things to have AI working logically... There seems to be some things in rF2 that alter AI stuff when it gets switched from player... Will report more later on this, because it is not fully, I will still have to do some adjustments to see if AI truly wears tires as supposed to. Obviously it would be good to have AI that wears tires simmilarly to player.

    This being said, I have tested with fuel consumption off now. If using standard settings AI will still pit for fuel and then change tires... if anyone knows if I can make AI not to change tires when refueling if there is enough of tires left, then please inform me how to do it. Otherwise for my personal use there is no point of this fix because I never run fuel consumption off :D It would be awesome to have AI strategizing this and not having unnecessarily long pitstops. (As well as all those other things with AI that S397 never improved, but instead made worse).
     
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  13. JamesB

    JamesB Registered

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    I agree with your last paragraph there, the AI having strange pit behaviour does skew race results quite badly especially in endurance type situations. I end up having to have the AI set way harder than I can compete with in terms of lap time because I know they will feck up the pit strategy and cost themselves loads of time or make 2 stops when they only need do one or...or......It can make for lonely racing when all you want is to be able to fight on more even terms. I either end up with races where they are evenly matched at that end because I have set them at a high level which are lonely or races where I set them so that I can fight on terms with them while driving but then win because of their strategy.
     
  14. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Engine RPM? I must admit, I was so focused on Wing Management that I never took a look at the RPM limits. If I'm reading the gearing chart correctly, the Big Block Chevy V8 can wind up to 10krpm. I would think, especially in 67, the rpm limit would be closer to 7k max with and endurance limit of 6500 or even 6000. Is this just something that we, the user, has to manage?
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Yes, you have to manage it. There are no limiters. For a while I was surprised, but Woochoo pointed that out, and he was correct. Now I don't remember from when did rev limiters begun, but I know Porsche 917 still didn't have them. Woochoo has placed graphics on tachometers, which are marking healthy rpm limits. Once you drive over these rpm limits you are damaging your engine, the higher above you go, the quicker you are loosing life of it. There are some cars that are ok to cheat slightly, for example car that takes place of GT40 MK2, normally you can overrev 1st and maybe 2nd for better acceleration, as long as you are overreving for a a second or two, but not more if you would like to finish 24h of race.


    ****rant time****
    I have that pdf manual that points out a lot of stuff too, which I never shared, I'd like to share it with an update. I also keep on working on them cars, but I am beginning to doubt if I should share it, maybe will just keep to myself. It seems like sharing so far didn't bring as much joy as I expected, sometimes it is opposite. I don't think people are discovering it as much as it is worth it. I spend loads of time on it. Of course, as I get the cars better, they get more chances to get some more love, but otherwise it will just also make me more sad if they'll go under radar or unloved, not meeting expectations which in some cases are wrong, historic simracing community becomes less united, smaller and more chaotic and fragmented as time goes by, it is sad, and I probably shouldn't expect to be welcomed to it as most of my "haters" are also historic race cars simracers, it is a sign to stay alone. I'd like to share videos of me driving them, but it takes time to capture, process and upload them, and who has time and interest to watch me :D
     
  16. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Thanks, I guess I think I was just surprised the graphs reached such a high rpm limit. The tach on the dash does have a redline with a nice touch, a grease-pencil marking where someone wrote the map rpm. With the Chappel, it is difficult to reach the redline at most tracks, so most likely won't be a problem. Just another example of me having blinders on. I knew you were working on updates, if you ever decide about sharing, I'll be one of the first in line.
     
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  17. jimagn

    jimagn Registered

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    Great car collection and physics. I too wish it was more popular on the rF2 servers. Thanks for all you do. I'm second in line behind Dave. ;)
     

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