[REL] 1955-1956 Lancia-Ferrari D50

1954: "That the D50 was quick enough was demonstrated gloriously at Barcelona. Walkerley: ‘The Lancias were rockets on wheels while they were going, as witness Ascari’s practice lap, less than 2secs slower than Fangio’s Alfa Romeo record (103.7mph) in 1951. Although Ascari was driving extremely hard, roadholding is good except under full throttle out of a curve.’ Alberto put the cherry-red Lancia on pole with a lap a full second quicker than Fangio could manage with his Mercedes-Benz and Villoresi, fifth fastest, was a tick of the watch faster than Moss in a works-backed Maserati."
- Alberto Ascari: Ferrari's First Double Champion, by Karl Ludvigsen
 
@Emery Yes it is like that. It can get very nervous on exit. Or even from mid corner as soon as you get on throttle on way out. When rear end breaks traction you better be very precise and quick with steering, and at the same time modulate throttle correctly. It is also essential to know how to allow the car to shake it off when you get it wrong, and don't get it wrong too much.

It is very exciting and interesting to drive. But while you at it, don't start to dream about things mid corner. Concentrate.

I have decided to give the car Engleberts as an upgrade. Don't have too much info about it, just know that these tires were performing not as well as Pirellis. So I basically took Pirellis that I have, and detuned them a little. I actually made better behaving tire, but it with not as good peak performance. Less skilled drivers probably will be faster with Engleberts, or be just as fast as with Pirellis. Pirellis are faster, but takes more effort to stay on the peak, and with them car is more nervous.

I did not stop at that. After reading that Lancia actually did build and tested AWD drivetrain. I have decided to add it through upgrades as an interesting thing. I just have no idea what torque split could have been there, if any ? With it I gave the car more mass, more inertia, more fuel consumption, more transmission power loss, slightly more forward mass distribution, some more inertia as mass rose up. It does drive very well I must say. Due to eventual penalties it is slower, it will take less distance in between refueling, it munches front tires quite a lot more, harder to stop, less top speed. But the traction is beautiful. Perhaps it should also be given little less mechanical durability, as there are more mechanicals to fail. I have not tried to adjust setup specifically for AWD so it would have little less understeer and more oversteer properties.
 
Ig5ERkV.jpeg


I have released the car for oh so much feedback from you guys. I hope you'll enjoy the car as soon as you don't disrespect it too much. And I am sure most of you will respect it.

Lancia D50 0.6 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3406025240

I am very thankful for each of you who helped me :) I couldn't and wouldn't do it all alone.

If someone would wish to make some skins, I have a template. And eventually as usual, I have no idea how to make UI icons. It is not worth it now with three different cars, but if we can get 6-10 different cars then it would be time.

1HBKSjL.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Can`t drive atm as wheel etc not set up but sent the AI out for a few laps to get a look at the car.

My AI driver will not leave the pits though. Tried a couple of times but once I activate the AI driver he just sits there.

Tested at Monza 66.
 
The car looks and feels great, thanks for your hard work. It's indeed nervous on corner exit and also through sudden bumps, very challenge and fun to drive.
 
Car looks great, I would like a link to templates if possible I might do some skins if I find time
 
Lots of fun to drive, squirrelly on corner exit as advertised. Thank you for all your hard work! Can you make the mirrors independently adjustable?

And thank you for the starter!
 
Gave this car a few laps at spa and other tracks and it feels great, it bites you if you relax but very satisfying to drive when you get it right
 
So far, as I am looking back all these cars that I have released are from those of a more challenging race cars in one or another way. Except Miata, but even that one with its lift off oversteer and edgier default setup will filter out all rookies. Fro mmany cars which physics I have worked on so far, there are several cars that would be complimentary to much broader skill range. For example Ferrari 250GT SWB is such a dream to drive. But I would probably prefer to work on Bizzarrini 5300GT which is very much like front/mid engined Ford GT40. From 50s cars there are examples of cars that drives very well such as: Ctype, Maserati A6GCS, Ferrari 750Monza Talbot Lago 26GS, Aston Martin DB3S but then there are more epic cars, which actually don't drive as cute: Dtype, Lancia D24, Ferrari 375plus, Lagonda DP115, Gordini T24s. So many amazing cars, and all are so different...

*************

@bears I've had pretty good time yesterday testing post release in Thruxton. Thruxton is so underrarted for historc cars, to me it laso seems more fun wet than any other track is when wet. I was testing Pirellis, then Engelberts. Engelberts were quite a bit easier to drive, but still very fun. A problem I had was that Iwas jsut as quick as with Pirellis, which shouldn't be the case. But then drove Pirellis once more, and did one second faster lap, so it is all good. It was so far best fun I have had with it. I would also recommend Imola 1972 from Reiza, it is also great with all historic cars.

There is the template: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pTQfHuw_B_r6Y1wFXSZQA08tMNHjX4cb/view?usp=sharing

I don't know what could be wrong @tjc I used AI to get out of garage in moddev a lot.

Yes this is a challenge car @svictor . But I think I have made it as good as it gets, well perhaps the setup still could be tuned better, that of course also depends on track and driving style. Engleberts will be easier to drive. And I don't have to talk about four wheel drive upgrade haha
 
Just tried again at different tracks and my AI driver worked at them all. Not sure why it wouldn`t work at historic Monza but will test again.

:)
 
Just a thought. Lancia D50 as racing car was very much like rFactor 2 in simracing, wasn't it ? And Lancia was very much like ISI. Not lucky. But they provided great technology and ideas for other manufacturers/developers.

******

I have a question. Should I add distinctive helmets. Blue for Ascari, Brown for Fangio ? Wouldn't that be too weird, as driver model looks nothing like them ?

Update is on the way. Probably will be there friday or saturday, not that there is any urgency I just plan it so.

Any more feedback ?

@Flatspotter I am too lazy to separe them away. Maybe will still do that, to me it is no priority, I never adjust them, just use virtual center mirror. This being said I have been modifying mirrors a little, should give better view.

@Art_Pereira Maybe you have information about what difference there was between engines in 1955 vs 1956 ? On the other hand, I suppose the differences between 1955 and 1956 apart different tires were minor, and probably not worth digging deep into.

Things done so far:

- Default seat height lowered, so when raised mirror view goes down;
- Fixed mirror edges mesh gap;
- Fake mirror shading fixed;
- small AI quality and pace increase;
- added backfire;
- added two more liveries/drivers;


Thanks to @svictor for:

- Fix of ripple maps and ripple control json file;
- PBR wheels and tires;
- Rain effects for gauges and windshield;

Car with PBR wheels looks a lot better now.

CbIGwwG.jpeg
hSHc1Vw.jpeg
kljdcff.jpeg
VGY8CQM.jpeg
IPzKwUi.jpeg
fRR4lSm.jpeg
qUxL4Kl.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Much gratitude for your superb experiment in love for exotic machines and your continuing passion to share freely with us. I have learned a lot about these fascinating cars that are new to me and how they evolved. Can't wait to try this latest update:D
 
Me too. I have yet to read some more things about these cars, and this particular car. Today I have read most of the provided material. It is very interesting. Have you ever heard someone mentioning that race car is too stiff ? Apparently it sometimes was a problem in 50s. Takes deep understanding to understand why.

Understanding the cars before 70s, and even more so before 60s feels like understanding 80-90% of a car as a thing, idea, technological achievement as a whole. I think because probably during these years this is how much of a car of what we have today was developed, this is when they were learning everything about basics and were making cars to really work.

Probably could add most of 60s to this, because some serious tire technology evolution happened allowing possibilities of insanely wide tires. Aerodynamics were getting cracked down really well so that cars begun to develop nearly neutral lift together with very little aerodynamic drag. Naturally aspirated engines were obtaining a lot of power quite reliably.

But really there was almost nothing that wasn't cracked a good deal by the time 60s begun.

Knowing cars from 80s till now is like knowing 10-20% of cars as an idea, technological achievement. The basics are taken for granted. It is about how many miliseconds can be gained by reducing unsprung weight by 70grams. And how to add lil more downforce that it would payoff lost straights speed by gained speed in curves.

By the end of 60s and through 70s not that much big new things happened. I think it was a phase where engineers and designers just begun optimising things. I think that it was also the time racing sport globally started making wrong turn. Optimising techology to single purpose of racing, just so that cars would be faster and easier to go fast, but not really practical. Increasing emphasis on downforce and rapidly diminishing importance of low drag was starting to spoil everything. Not to mention days of very soft tire compounds dawning. Days of electronic driver aids and withdrawing/simplifying manual controls of the cars. Races requiring perfect conditions to be happening. I think the cars got less safe due to how extremely high grip levels grew, comes with dangers of going off the cliff of the grip in mid turn on very high speeds. I think it would be whole lot safer to have more straights speeds and slower cornering speeds, and it would make more sense. The saving grace of modern motorsport age is the materials and computer aided designs that help to make cars virtually indestructable. Last but not least bad downside of modern racecars is that they are astronomically expensive. Well I have no knowledge how much more expensive todays F1 cars are if to be adjusted to inflation and compared to 50s F1 cars. But I am sure that if today it was closer to 50s technology, there probably would be 500 teams trying to race in F1 lol

But whatever.

Here are some final screenshots of the day. I am gettign rather happy, the list of issues/to do is shrinking. And the remaining issues are falsely starting to appear bigger and bigger as others gets solved.

sbIE3Ej.jpeg


Many more test screenshots if you like to see them: https://imgur.com/a/krUcFev
 
Last edited:
+1. Thanks for sharing those technical details (and also from other modders), it makes driving experience more immersive. This is one of the things I recalled the GPL community have shared a lot in their mods in the past, and nice to read those info from RF2 community too. The driving feel of this car is so detailed and alive in RF2, really great work with the physics.
 
ASS9x6R.jpeg


Thank you for the links. I am planning to release an update tomorrow. Just need to do few little tweaks. Just tested in Nurburgring 1967, and Sandeoverde (Zandvort) 1965. It is pretty good. Just need watch out that tail bite, don't overdo sliding, although it is very exciting, I have not had this much fun in old Zandvort yet, I drove with Engleberts.

I have remembered older idea. I would add extra car, no number clean red, with slightly different category, which would have upgrades of "modern historics". Which would be better tires, more powerful engine. Maybe something more.

LQet4U0.jpeg


Changelog for tomorrow, probably won't change much:
Code: 
- Default seat height lowered, so when raised mirror view goes down;
- Fixed mirror edges mesh gap;
- Fake mirror shading fixed;
- small AI quality and pace increase;
- added backfire;
- added two more liveries/drivers;
- increased mesh resolution of gauges;
- few other small model improvements;
- some improvements to shading such as alluminum, oil radiator;
- reduced fuel consumption by 30%;
- increased power by 1%.

Thanks to svictor for:
- Fix of ripple maps and ripple control json file;
- PBR wheels and tires;
- Rain effects for gauges and windshield.

//Recommendations of engine maintenance.
If oil temperature is bellow 100C, RPM can be safely hold this long:
- 7400 ~ 4hours
- 7700 ~ 1hour
- 8000 ~ 20minutes
- 8300 ~ 2minutes
- 8600 ~ 10seconds
- 8900 ~ 1second (nothing safe about this one actually)

These times decrease while oil is being held above 100C:
- 4C ~ 2X
- 8C ~ 4X
- 12C ~ 8X

//Tire recommendations:
Pirellis are faster but harder to drive. Lancia used them in 1955.
Engleberts are easier but slower. Ferrari used them in 1956.

To do:
- Reduce helmets reflectivity;
- Tire blur tread texture not seamless;
- Front inner sidewals UV miscentered;
- Add modern historics tire and engine power (usually about 30-50hp more) as upgrade;
- Add UI icons, maybe a skin or two more ? (if someone wants to do skin?) (Villoresi, Chiron, Musso still not in);
- More detailed interior;
- More detailed exterior (rivets and so(complicated));
- Showroom wheels instance (minor issue);

Can't solve:
-AI does not respond to AIneg suspension parameter well enough;
-Can't get my sounds working;
-Steering arms anim;
-Rain effects overscaled in cockpit.

MrEip7T.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top