[REL] 1937 Mercedes -Benz W125

mantasisg

mantasisg

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0.6 RELEASED:
Link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3385038359


Thanks to @ling for initial port into rF2, I was inspired to continue W125 for rF2 which I have started for AC years ago.

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While continuing work on its physics for rF2, my belief seems to be coming true - it is indeed fantastic car to drive. It is a car, not a sled ! Tires are fine, not hughe amount of grip but it is good enough, only issue about tires is that they are not very durable, still a lot better than what would be considered normal racing tire durability in modern racing. I just don't think we can have true tire wear, it is just not simulated. These tires would have failed IRL mostly due to internal friction between cords and fatigue stresses, which rose a lot with higher top speeds, whole treads would get peeled off, as a reference in 5-6fast laps in Nurburgring. This car also consumed a lot of fuel, it carried 400L of special fuel, and as a reference it would be gone in 9-10 racing laps around Nurburgring. Crazy acceleration and top speeds around 320km/h in 1937, racing on normal roads.

The car will have several engine upgrade options, and also two different size rear wheel options. Despite rF2 not simulating tire failures up to such extents that it would take chords failure, the bigger diameter wheel still seems to be having lower wear rate, not sure how much of it is due to more amount of rubber, and how much of it is due influence to torque application.

Here is fantastic website about 1937 GP season: https://www.goldenera.fi/gp37.htm

Right now in rF2 we have tracks that are reasonably close to what was raced in 1937:
  1. Nurburgring - it is 60s version, fairly accurate. I guess it was very similar in 1937.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2912590003&searchtext=nurburgring
  2. SPA - it is also 60s version, but with 30s layouts added, which IMO makes track better, more eventful. In 30s photos the track appears to be significantly narrower, and with a lot of trees very close to the track, Lang reached 310km\h just before Masta with W125.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2847960101&searchtext=spa
  3. Monaco - 60s version, in 1937 Tabac appears to have been little tighter and Chicane was closer to it.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=926662328&searchtext=monte
  4. Pescara - 50s version, should be pretty much how it was in 1937, only in 1937 they divided long straights by chicanes.
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/pescara-1957-payware-released.75899/
Currently car is pretty good already. But needs some optimisations, I want to add rims blur. Driver is a bit sunk into the seat, might roll with that. Need to do more texturing here and there. Rear suspension is not fully animated for rF2. UI icons. Optimise AI and optimise rain tire performance, more detailing for engines.


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About bremgarten, fatalfie track conversion is not possible, but we have this old rf1 early conversion
Maybe with a touch of love it could become a nice track to use

 
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@Mauro Yes, that one is actually not as bad, it is only that Alfie pushed the visuals up to extreme level. On the other hand it is not encloused in artificial tunel like fencing. I hope to have few tracks from Fat Alfie in rF2, Thomson Road is one of my favorites.

I wonder what about Donnington, is it impossible either ? Anyway... it is how it is.

@Corti Masaryk looks amazing too, it is big track also. Look at that scene where car goes through trees alley, road looks to be barely 3-4meters wide.

Meanwhile, I have discovered that Dundrod is amazing track for W125.

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I spent whole weekend on this car, I couldn't do any other work anyway...

I think it is almost releasable. Nothing is perfect. But I like everything. Perhaps model could use most work, especially on optimising, reducing amount of materials. Little bit better sorting of Loding, not to mention making lods... but thats always pretty much last thing... Need to do some gauges stuff still, AI is never perfect. UI icons. Rear suspension animation...

Check out more screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/69BFFQY

THIS CAR IS SERIOUS BIT OF KIT
 
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Regarding Fat Alfie
I simply spoke to him years ago and has always been categorical on not giving permission to convert his circuits to other sims.
I know other people who have always received the same answer.
If I am not mistaken, in recent years the creators of RF2 also contacted him, but without results.

And from what I understood now fat alfie is hired by the Kunos to bring his works on AC Evo

rd interview: https://www.overtake.gg/threads/10-questions-for-david-pemberton.200945/
And a podcast https://www.overtake.gg/news/the-racedepartment-podcast-a-special-with-fat-alfie-s03-e11.261/


p.s. About vintage circuits nice with this car i think you could try also

Le Mans Link
Crystal Palace Link
Linas Montlhery (long layout) Link
Targa Florio Link
Dundrod Link
Bridgehampton Link
Isle of Man Link
Solitude Link
Rouen Link
Riverside Link
Silverstone Link
 
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To me it is always very painful trying to get rimblur right. I have already overcome lots of trouble to reach this stage, and now I can't workout blending.

Perhaps someone has a suggestion for shader and blending options ? You can see the transparency is wrong by the back of the wheel. RImblur object consists of whole rim, and three planes assigned to transparent texturing - two for spokes and one for knockoff. Is there a way to fix it, or does rF2 only work with alpha chroma for rim blur ? Alpha chroma looks especially terrible for these wheels blur, so I am not using that.

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This is how it is supposed to look, this is from my work in AC:
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This is looking really good @mantasisg

I have this car by you in AC and it`s excellent. Looking forward to having it in rF2.

Thanks for all the work and links etc. Thanks to the others for videos and links too.

Btw, what`s the latest version of this car for AC?
 
@tjc Thank you, it would look better if I could work out how to have proper rims blur. Help pls.

I am on the verge of releasing without rims blur. In short what I still want to do for first release is get rims blur nice. Adjust rims and rimblur materials so they match and look good. Get tires appear nice (have a problem getting normal map kick in) .

My latest version is there: https://assettocorsamods.net/resources/. Unfortunately it looks like site doesn't work at the moment.

There were later updates for physics by others after this. But I don't entirely agree with those physics, tires are completely unrealistic, but it literally "floats" what people in AC thinks is good. I have made this to be a car, not a boat. I did it for AC, and finally I did it for rF2.


I am now going to do a lot of writing regarding some of the physics detailing. Going off loosely from memory:

In rF2 my car handles exactly like it can be seen in the videos - good, although limited grip, nice bite, it drives normally most of the time as long as you respect the speeds the car can handle, it doesn't drive on permanent 15-19degrees slip like if tires would be made out of small bearings. It does like little bit of subtle throttle steering up to appropriate angles and goes into nice subtle rocket-like bite out of slides when driven appropriately (especially with a lot of fuel loaded up above rear axle), easy to be consistent with when driven wisely and classy. A lot of the times you can't use full throttle as tires slips away, but they do it in twitchy fashion like tires are made of rubber, not tires made of strange soap material that somehow holds the permanent sliding. Even visual tire flex looks about right - bottom is deformed naturally and tires wobble nicely when driven on high slip angles - because they work realistically.

Steering has nice feel, beauty is not debatable. Massive positive toes at front works, car feel balanced and doesn't lack turn in, except on very very small speeds with no throttle (Dundrod hairpin), but it might be due to limited turning circle. There is a lot of steering action going on at the limits, all the time making the turn it is continuous effort to make car understeer and catching/holding drifts - it is very dynamic. Although steering has a lot of rotation 2.4turns from lock to lock, the steering ratio is alright, it never feels too slow or too fast.

I am getting only minimal amount of front wheels locking when braking, but by now I am almost sure that is because drum brakes self servo effect is not simulated and maybe something else regarding brake shoes lining compounds. Brakes are not amazing, but fade is not massive, and they somewhat match tires braking grip.

One of the key things were to have tires rather stiff for yaw (rotating around vertical axis) and roll (rotating around horizontal axis). It has been a bit challenging to get it all right together with reasonably low tire friction and high wear, but it works - drives good, feels well. Couldn't get tire abrasive wear work well without ruining grip dynamics till I realized I can just change WLF curve base parameter (abrasive wear influences how tire grip in rF2, isn't that impressive?), fortunately it instantly satisfied needs for tire grip dynamics, and tire wear properties.

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21 years ahead W125, but principally very similar. A quick example of tire roll (around horizontal axis). Of course body roll and minimal base setup positive camber adds up. However it shows how these narrow old GP tires did have sufficient bite, and they also had this pronounced curb-roll effect due to their narrow geometry.

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1939 Mercedes, this must have been great car, as well as their 1938 season car. Not as inovative as AutoUnion, but they really did the traditional way well.

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Very exaggerated roll, probably because of very large positive camber base setup. Also probably due to larger camber growth with front trailing arms geometry, maybe that is why they were nowhere to be seen again after 50s ended.

I have engines physics simple now. I wonder how much more they could be detailed. But basics are right. Massive power. Engine braking is right there before it would become a worrying handling problem. Massive fuel consumption. Heat management stuff. Engine life stuff.

I am wondering if I don't have chassis too good, perhaps could make it's stiffness and damping a little less perfect. CG height is slightly on "could have been this good" side.

Car generates some lift. Drag is not the lowest. Three radiator options - and they have massive impact for drag.

Very soft rear end. And it somehow works, even with 400L of fuel, which almost entirely compresses springs, but maybe there is still some damping + damping from tires, that just makes rear end work. Also although front springs and dampers are at front, they still do some work when chassis is squatting. Maybe chassis itself also takes little bit of suspension duty via slight flex.

Speaking of flex. Yes proper tire simulation is very important, and it is main thing. But I think without chassis flex proper simulation of these cars would be very compromised, it is very important variable for these cars. Probably much more than for modern race cars, which are essentially super stiff. It is interesting to play with chassis flex spring and damping parameters. Can change the car attitude entirely just by altering chassis flex, can have a boringly perfect car by perfecting chassis flex, and can add a lot of character to the car and change it's attitude massively by adjusting chassis flex to be perhaps slightly less ideal in a way, without knowing it it would be hard to tell that it is not coming from tires - but it is chassis flexing perhaps slightly imperfectly damped, and maybe flexing a little more.
 
Yes, it would look better if the rims were blurred for sure. Hopefully you`ll get it working or someone can help if needed.

Pity that site isn`t working for your latest version of the car for AC. Hope it`ll be back up soon.

I have not used any physics updates for the AC car although I do think I have them downloaded.

I wish you well @mantasisg with getting the car how you want it to be and as realistic as possible.

Unfortunately it takes me all my time to try and drive these old cars let alone mod them.

Best of luck. :)
 
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I am going to tell you the secret about this car, don't tell it to anyone. This car has traction control. It is activated by throttle pedal, by pressing and releasing it in quick frequency.;)

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I planned first release last weekend. But of course implementing rimblur is always a torture. Besides that I also got into trouble with IBL shaders. IBL shaders for tires looks very nice, but couldn't get to have blur anymations working. With IBL shaders for rims I also had lots of troubles getting opacity right, getting transparency right for spokes blur. Nothing worked and I have been fighting with all that literally whole week. Yesterday in particularly was super hard day. Many hours wasted, I have been trouble shooting a thousand different things. But eventually I won this battle against rimblur. Perfect score would have been to obtain it with IBL shading, but still good as it is. I have got two blur stages, switching nicely.

However, I have finally achieved what I wanted to achieve. Car is almost ready for initial release. Not perfect. But I think definitely good enough. I still have to do little bit of tweaking for AI, as I have improved its suspension and gears shifting, and now they are too fast.

https://imgur.com/a/uFSQirD
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:cool:
 
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