“ are rfactor2 physics broken” video

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTClub_wajdi, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    In the interest of honesty, Henri Sinik (whom I thank) has made a video in which we see the two steering wheels, here it is:

    So I was wrong, he doesn't use an assistant, which at the same time completely exonerates him from a possible problem with ECV (which I still don't care about but the consequences could have been serious I suppose).

    So I was wrong, I keep looking :)


    In french for my teamates from iRacing :

    Dans un souci d'honnêteté, Henri Sinik (que je remercie) a fait une vidéo dans laquelle on voit les deux volants, la voici :

    Donc j'avais tort, il n'utilise pas d'assist, ce qui du même coup l'innocente complètement d'un éventuel problème avec la VEC (dont je me moque toujours complètement mais les conséquences auraient pu être graves je suppose).

    J'avais donc tort, je continue de chercher :)
     
  2. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Nice, that's cleared for the sake of us, yourself and Henry :)

    Now it would be cool to see if Henry could repeat some of his laps showing that he is using some relatively high FFB and we would have a better idea if the exploit in FFB explains this behavior. Mantasisg has already put forth a strong argument that if that was the case then they would be using some very strong power steering. There is no easy explanation guys, at least let's agree on that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  3. Kevin van Dooren

    Kevin van Dooren Registered

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    Oh I can definitely be difficult, no argument about that, but I dont tend to jump to conclusions. As I know how this graph will look like. Also, its not meant as an attack in any means, heck I drove with settings like these for a long time and I did myself a disfavour as it ruins the detailed ffb we have in rf2. I think it would really open your eyes if you would look at said ffb graph.
     
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  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    If I was rf2 tester, I would probably think that there is nothing to improve about these cars as well. I'd ask for true university graduation worth of study proving what is not right, and then if it would arrive, I'd simply not read it, would just look how many times "slip angle" was mention
    ed, and if there are telemetry readings.

    Just pat ourselves on the backs, we are all so good.
     
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Honestly man, I know what clipping FFB feels like, as T300 even has the noise so I can feel it. And I mean, so light clipping is different from clipping without a clue. I don't let clipping in most of the time, even less cornering, as I want to feel the grip breaking away... There might be some coming from road and suspension, but that doesn't really bothers me much and even then I doubt it really is. Oh by the way, I have GT cara and last cars by Studio 397 at bellow 90, depends on the car, but the Mclaren at some tracks can be taken with 100% as the corners don't get speed enough and so I can put it up as I like strong feel at low speeds and that car has light feeling when not high speed cornering. Caster helps, but I would have to always be changing it.
     
  6. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    Strangely I'm glad as well, not because I was wrong (which I have no problem with) but because it thrown suspicion on someone that didn't deserve it and it doesn't prove rF2 can be hacked in VEC so I'm glad as well.

    Where I'm a bit less glad is that it implies there is an issue with those tires...
     
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  7. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah... Not to beat the horse, but we've been telling you... :D:D Kidding, I wasn't sure and still not sure about anything as we don't have absolute proof and digging and testing, doubting is all good, and going overboard some times it's normal as we find new things, then we find we found nothing and look at it better. Normal ;)
     
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  8. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    It seems to be the tire itself that is wrong but have to find to what extend...

    Still not sure why they use this steering technique btw, I don't find it faster and it ruins tires, strange...
     
  9. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I think the reason is simple: if you go directly beyond, any correction will be more predictable because you are on the sloping grip and not on the narrow top of grip level.
     
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  10. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, it's different, but still, is it possible to do even that at this level?
     
  11. Havner

    Havner Registered

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    Again, layman understanding, layman arguments.
    Relating to my lap times I mentioned earlier on Spa, I *think* this technique makes me personally faster as with overturning the wheel I can keep more throttle in the turn (definitely mid corner, maybe on corner entry as well) using the additional bite this overturning gave me. It's not simply overturning, but overturning + throttle. Faster cornering, greater speed on corner exit -> faster lap time.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yeah, guess that explains it a lot.
     
  13. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    Maybe, I have to try, it feels so weird I can't do this naturally :p
     
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  14. Havner

    Havner Registered

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    Also, maybe now you'll find time between eating and your children :p to do the Ibarra + Alpine GT4 test as it greatly and simply shows this additional bite/grip on full throttle we are talking about.

    Easy to reproduce, easy to show clearly.
     
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  15. Havner

    Havner Registered

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    Also thank you @Nieubermesch as your persistence got us to a point we are here now with the nice video from Henri. If you weren't so persistent this discussion would've died long ago without the conclusion we have here now.
     
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  16. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ahaha, oh yeah, I have a lot of free time, that helps and I'm a bit obcessed with the physics of simulations. I myself have been accepting some explanations and trying to rationalize some behavior, but I coudln't let some things go and continued to explore :)
     
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  17. RDG

    RDG Registered

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    As I said in the other thread, it seems the sim doesn't punish oversteering* enough. If I drive like some of the videos on here in my Caterham on a track day, I can pit for new front tires after 2-3 laps. It also feels to me that the grip drop-off past the slip angle is a bit weak, but that could be tire/car related.

    * To clarify: I mean steering past the optimal slip angle, causing understeer.
     
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  18. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ok people, did 2 seconds less or something on Susuka driving as if it was a rally car :cool::cool: The only change was FFB and tyre pressures from 180 to 140. Need to practice more to see if I can replicate it with normal pressures, even if some setup adjustment is needed.
     
  19. Kevin van Dooren

    Kevin van Dooren Registered

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    Is 180kPa a normal cold pressure?
     
  20. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Here it is. Normal lap starts at 2:10. At 4:05 I pit, change pressures and FFB and go again. At 6:15 lap starts. See it yourself. I even did a second imcomplete lap after burning tires and it was even crazier. I almost passed the first but I catched to much curb and crashed. Have to say that car seems to lose sense of weight with such a low (33º) fov, so driving normally even looks a little weird to me, but that's more down to that.
     

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