“ are rfactor2 physics broken” video

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTClub_wajdi, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Well, alright, fair enough, it looks to me at least. I honestly right now just expect to see if devs will give any statement or not, or people really come to conclusions based on facts that the reasonable majority can agree (not majority of votes, majority looking at concrete evidence).
     
  2. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    Overturning does work since rf2's first beta build. (From back in 2013? 2010?)

    So... thats not even news. But the question stays relevant, is it realistic...
     
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  3. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Ok, I just used the setup hacks known already (people are pretending it's a secret when it has already came out). I'll post a video with myself doing a lap with McLaren Senna at LeMans. It's not about lap times (it's not even the laser scanned version, other one circulating in ISR).
     
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I actually think that this Senna is one of more awesome S397 cars. But have to admit, the way this guy launches into Porsche curves, and later on into Ford chicanes...

    It is insane and unbelievable. And still he seems to be calm with his steering, he just knows that he can throw the car in violently and it will make a turn alright.

    I don't even understand how he gets such turn in, in the first place, does he engine brake to overrotate the car a bit, to get high speed kind of WRC+LeMans kind of driving ?
     
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  5. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Low FFB plays a huge role. Just tested some on susuka (matsusaka). I will probably upload the whole video, full of crashes, using a setup hack with really soft car suspension and then default setup (tyre pressures 180). It seems that with FFB normal it's hard to throw them around, and even with low one has to know what one is doing. The question is, should this be explained way just by low FFB? Or shouldn't it be possible even with low FFB? Certainly a difficult question.

    The video will make me look bad, as people will focus more on the fails and it will be quite long. Still, there are moments where I am driving throwing the car around (default setup). It can be seen I had 100% force and reduced it to 60% or something (T300 is very subtle at 60% to me).
     
  6. Andregee

    Andregee Registered

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    With a different field of view or view angle, the video would look completely different. One should also not forget that in real videos a wide angle is used. The single screen, however, uses a FOV that enables a somewhat more realistic size representation, but restricts the viewing angle. This makes the background look relatively large and even small movements appear above average. Anyone can try this out by panning around a camera or smartphone with a little zoom; the whole thing looks much more hectic than in the wide angle.What we think we see as incredibly extreme manoeuvres is actually not half as bad as the cockpit perspective would have us believe.
     
  7. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    The lack of cockpit vibration, head movement och exaggerate yaw also helps it look like a hovercraft on rails. You can see the same effect when he's playing Dirt Rally 2.

    This is a matter of gaming the game as opposed to driving a simulator. Set everything up to be as easy to drive as possible, no matter how unrealistic it is. That's competitive gaming more than sim racing.

    I hate it, but what can you do about it?
     
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  8. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Yes, that has already been explored. There's merit to that, but not sure if it can be explained by that right away.



    Here is the video of me trying to do... something with the McLaren Senna simillar to "exploitative driving". Came to the conclusion that I can only drift and throw the car into corners with consistency at higher speeds when FFB is 60% on a T300. Very hard to respond quick enough and precisely enough with FFB hitting clipping (very little, but some clipping at the top is fine for me).
    All in all I started with a hack setup you can see in the video. Next is putting FFB at 60% feeling much more easier to throw the cars around stupidly. Then I hit default setup and I can still kind of do it, but it's more difficult.

    Conclusions? Well, devs look into this... If it's more than FFB exploit then fix it when possible. Make it harder to do it, damage model,whatever. I still think the tires should be more edgier and FFB only explains part of it, so, it's not like I've "lost" (take the quotation marks serious).

    FFB drop is at minute 5. You can see after that and setup being the same and then going to default, I can drift/powerslide the car much more easily. Default setup is at 6:45.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  9. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    The reason why you look bad in the video and crash continiously or loose control is because of the tires loosing traction and exceeding grip limits. Did that ever come to your mind? What else should we expect? That some of the drifts aren't possible? I am not sure about that tbh. First of all the Senna GTR is a very expensive track day hyper car that you rarely see driven in anger, let alone a person drifting it through R130. That's exactly what I tried to explain earlier on. You simply have no fear driving the car like that and all you do after you screw it up is hitting escape and you are ready to race again. The version in the game can actually be considered a fantasy car. And you having issues with the response of the FFB actually supports my suspicion that Henri either has a lower steering sensetivity or a steering wheel range above the standard car setting. The advantage of this is that you conserve the tires a bit better but you have to invest more time into turning the wheel in slower corners and overal you are loosing a bit of presicion. Regarding your test, I would be interested if you are able to drive consistent competetive laptimes like that actually. I highly doubt it. ;)

    Btw, something that you can do while doing those tests is using Motec and telemtry and check if the car is producing wierd downforce levels, gforces and if the tires grip while achieving those values.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  10. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Lol, a little bit too much condescent no? I never said you can't crash and I doubt you've read a lot of what I've already posted. It's not about the senna specifically, I am sure cars of a certain level of aerodynamics and stiff suspensions, will not behave that differently when this issue is concerned, given they have some slick tires. I never denied what you said, this time I just really wanted to try the FFB at low and see how it really changed, and I am glad I did. I had already noticed that FFB looks low in many of these videos, but what is yet to be proven is this... FFB allows and facilitates this, no fear of that also helps, although many drivers do really agressive laps and we can see the car becoming unstable and they are constatly driving through it, so it's only part of the equation. In the end, it remains to be proven if in real life with a power steering that would be equivalent of low FFB, one could do what this guys are doing... We need to stop with the simple answers.

    Well, I never drove like that, so I am not so sure if at least some laps I wouldn't be able to do after getting used to the limits. ;)

    Ok, there's actually something I can do. Get on one of the cara that seem to have edgier slick tires and see how it goes.

    Edit:

    Well, it went even more easy :eek:. The car I mean is the new honda super Gt and while the car seems to reach the limits easily, it's also easier to control it under drifting conditions, although it seemed snappier at first :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  11. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    Just tried the Senna and was reminded of why I never drive that car. It's planted like a racecar with high downforce yet rides like a Bentley. I could go banzai cutting through Les Combes without upsetting the car too much. I could feel it alright but in other cars my wheel stand, weighing well over 30Kg, would lift from the floor by the jolt through the steering wheel.

    Easiest car I've driven in this game, and while does actually look easy to drive in real life it certainly doesn't look THAT easy.
     
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  12. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Not so sure it's the easiest car in the game. Well, my feeling is that it's quite nimble and agile, not like a bentley, if by that you mean a massive weight at the front making it "boat like".
     
  13. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    No, I mean it eats curbs and bumps like they don't exist.
     
  14. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    Oh, ok, sorry then. Maybe, I don't know by memory.

    By the way, it's the GTR version, that one is the road version (?).
     
  15. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    I did it. 11 minutes of torture and tires are at 70's tire left, but I runned too wide sometimes making them wear more and getting more slippery. Minimum tire pressures, the rest is at default setup. FFB at 60% just like before.

     
  16. ATQ

    ATQ Registered

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    Yes, that was the road version and on the Nordshleife which is very punishing.

    The GTR actually looks incredibly easy to drive.
     
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  17. Nieubermesch

    Nieubermesch Registered

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    He also isn't pushing that hard :)



    This is how I drive in Rfactor2 by the way. There's nothing more realistic at the moment for me, if I am not trying to break something.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  18. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    After 42 pages I still think that if track grip level was more "patchwork" then a lot of this " why dudes I can keep the car at 102% performance endless" will be self cured with a crash. It would be even quite easy to check: we should just need a test track with that feature.
     
  19. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    Interesting, could you compare your lap times as well ? Were you faster doing so ?

    I'm confused btw, the "aliens" in other videos were much more precise and the car didn't even move a bit. For example the Senna on Le Mans was incredibly stable, even without overturning the wheel I wasn't able to be that stable (but I had default setup, could be a reason to begin with)...the braking by itself was extremely difficult, not blocking a single tire like the guy did was only achieved by using low anti-lock feature (the car don't have ABS so I used the in game help to test it, seems to be what the guy is doing as well).

    So I wonder 2 things :

    1) is rF2 punishing enough when using in game helps ? Because clearly my lap times were MUCH better with low anti-lock than without (but I only did 3 laps so...)
    2) could the guy also use some kind of steering help ? Asking because when moving my wheel like he did made me spin almost all the time like you in your video, at least it wasn't as smooth at all. Wondering because we can't see the in game wheel so a steering help is more than possible and would explain a lot of things.

    But yeah, anyway this could be an exploit, either the FFB or something else but if you can be as fast or faster than someone trying to drive the car the way it is intended, it is a kind of exploit or at least not welcome.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  20. Yzangard

    Yzangard Registered

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    LOL, just did the test with :

    - low steering help
    - low anti-lock

    And guess what ? I can do EXACTLY what he does, I can of course overturn like crazy, in game the wheel just turns up to almost ideal slip angle and everything is smooth...

    SERIOUSLY we are dealing with this since the begining ?

    Don't believe me ? JUST TRY IT !

    Now the question is : how the hell can we be faster with HELPS that easily ? Why is it only allowed in competition ?

    until proven otherwise, it is just some random driver using in game helps to be faster since the game doesn't punish their use enough.
     
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