Chris Haye Just Suggested to Look For New Genre Name

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mantasisg, May 29, 2019.

  1. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Yes. I wish some people would invest intellectually too.

    I don't feel like many people who has best understanding about vehicles dynamics, handling, and simulation of it all has been putting a lot of care to preserve the image of simracing.

    Some wrong people has become big influencers.

    I posted once at reddit a link to Heusinkveld youtube, jokingly said that real simracer follows Heusinkveld. Have been downvoted, named an elitist and gatekeeper.

    Visited reddit again recently here is what I saw:

    • A random bizarre accident from simracing - 1000 upvotes importance

    • Picture of gear or a rig - 500 upvotes importance

    • New promising simulation title gets announced (AMS2) - 100 upvotes importance
    Nicki Thimm just bashed ACC first release, well he is real pro GT3 driver with experience of the very exact thing so trust ++, also he is Danish, and Danish are know as very trustworthy people so trust ++++++++++. But he spun so many times, and didn't even looked like seriously trying to hold on. I mean, I don't know... have not tried ACC 1.0 yet. But Thimm is big iRacing simracer so perhaps thats a bit a thing too. At the end if such case is true whole simracing suffers. The idea about simulating reality well should unite, but it apparently doesn't....

    I think to standardize simulation some specific testing procedures should be invented and tied together with data from real world. Of course no way it could get detailed and lead to high level, but at least some basics, like traction circle, base grip and sliding grip, tire load sensitivity, acceleration and braking, slip angles, steering shaft torque and slip angle function, SAT, weight transfer effects, load transfer effects...

    That way if some would pass and fit the requirements, then it should be able to "officially" be a simracing software. And from there people would argue which is higher grade :D
     
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  2. Korva7

    Korva7 Registered

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    Soon Simcade will be the N-word of simracing world :)
     
  3. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Nothing is wrong with simcade or arcade. It is just that promotes false standards of true simulation by trying to milk the image by introducing tiny bit of realism or does it totally wrong. That certainly does not add up to anything worth of being called a simulation.

    The conflict is about where is that barrier that something breaks into being realistic. It is only up to personal preference and common sense.

    Common sense is probably not going to be a solid and steady foundation. At least there are no guarantees about people understanding improving and not getting worse in future, especially as cars are getting less mechanical, racing less eventful and interest in classic stuff that highlights basics of physics is rapidly vanishing.
     
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  4. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Yes this!
    Simcade will need a #metoo movement.
     
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  5. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    Actually not.


    @mantasisg
    Yep Thiim was rude :)
    But he is right. Average user need all things working in game, he need to understand what and how to do in game w/o help from the internets. And so on. All simracing titles are just a games for him. No exception. All he need is community, like iracing have now, and accurate visual representation of tracks and cars. And user friendly software ofc.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  6. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Great video!
     
  7. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    Yep. And latest in my subscription list from gt sport player :)
     
  8. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    who is Chris Haye?
     
  9. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    Simracing bloger. Also he is working with Race Department now
     
  10. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    He is that guy who in soothing voice says "Hello, fellow simracers"

    @mr.Sw1tchblade As for Thimm, I think he didn't even try to be any of these: objective, informative, helping, trying. Looked to me like if he was taunting ACC, by acting like if he had AC paradigm of oversteer FFB, and delibarately waiting 250miliseconds more to start correcting the slides, because in AC it would be about that much earlier that FFB would start catching you a car.

    This is not proven^^^^ but I'd check that.
     
  11. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    Yep. And he never trying to be helping and trying. He is there to make show. Go hard or go home, you know. Once in a thousand years he could make sim comparison video. But i think only if big part of his fans asking him to make it. And it's so noticeable hard for him to find smth realistic during those reviews :)
    But also, he always say: if you enjoy any sim-play it. Every time someone asked him how realistic simname is.
    Even at those ACC stream when someone asked him:does he feel like he is driving real car-he said yes, and his friend agreed.
     
  12. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    ha!! ok Kunos Department :p
     
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  13. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

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    I did one of these 'realism debates' last year looking at driver aids in one video and physics in another. There's a consensus among sim racers that they're more 'hardcore' if they play one title over another. So what? I play RF2, I play AC, I play AMS, RBR and even Gran Turismo.

    If you enjoy a title, then enjoy it. If someone else enjoys another title, let them enjoy that.
     
  14. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    So you completely don't understand what I mean.

    I have nothing against arcade, simcade and so on....

    It is the integrity of simulation that I am talking about. Keeping image where it belongs.

    The main reason for that is that it is unclear how genre would be affected in the long term if simulation genre will consist in wide range from full honest strong simulation software, to software that is barely realistic at all. The question is which end would have stronger influence. I think image and prestige is priceless and you just can't easily leave everything up to fate, if you only have an imagination to imagine what are possible scenarios in the first place....

    If best simulation gradually influence lesser simulation to become greater without itself becomming worse then it is nice. If best simulation gets influenced by lesser simulation to become "more attractive", then how ? By gameplay - great. By a bit of more simcadish amateurish car behaviour - a disaster. I have once thought that eventually simracing titles in terms of physics will become almost same, simply because everyone is trying to imitate same thing. But I did not think about the effect of perception of simracers, which makes the reality split into different versions. Thats also commercially more resonable. As @LokiD has said about being happy that AMS2 is not going to use rF2 foundation, because it would be a clone. It most certainly going to be more unique by using SMS engine, rather than ISI/S397 engine, for obvious reasons, because AMS goals are closer to rF2 than PC2 (hopefully).

    Different approaches to reality are clearly a thing. Most noticeably at how steering works. Not without a reason everywhere you look at you see that someone wrote "FFB", FFB here and FFB there... For example, some players say: -I want to have very suggestive FFB because IRL life there are so many cues that I miss. While other say: -I want car controls to feel as authentic as possible and I don't want any compensations and additional effects to somehow compensate cues that I am missing, because that way the authentic handling of the vehicle is fundamentally distorted. Where the players will go if both will be a simracing title ? Which will become new standard ? Will people that will get used used to first one be able to appreciate the second one ? Will people that are used to first one agree that second one is actually correct ? And thanks god if it is only that, because there also could be entirely wrong physics being based on idea that it is impossible to have exactly same thing anyway, and lets just have fun.

    Simracing definitely needs more people, but not in expense of getting less complex and polishing out realistic details.
     
  15. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    You are right though. A lot of entertainment is getting infiltration by the boring-brigade who want to change things and ultimately destroy it in the process. I see it in several areas of entertainment and its kinda sickening. Had a long debate with some egghead online who thought PC is a good and moral thing, and i told him PC is for people who want to dictate how others live their lives. Its based on emotion rather than facts. "Oh i find this or that word offensive so EVERYONE has to change in order to cater to MY precious feelings". This has no place in simracing but the boring-brigade comes after everything. It all has to be destroyed.

    If you take offense in the sim racing World then there is something really wrong with you. Probably should see a shrink because there is nothing toxic about our beloved hobby. Everyone is welcome (except the boring-brigade. To hell with them).
     
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  16. mr.Sw1tchblade

    mr.Sw1tchblade Registered

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    Thiim online. Right now with acc.
    @Oldseb
    @oldjokes :)
     
  17. Sebastien Sestacq

    Sebastien Sestacq Registered

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    people make up their minds by watching videos on YT and when you see some rf2 videos that look like rf1...I understand that some people don't even test the game! the cockpit, the sky, the road...it doesn't make you want to buy, some videos are good @1080 and ultra graphics, but too many are md/low graphics on non-optimized mods it's just horrible to watch...
    look at the comments about rF2 it saddens me, systematically it's bash graphics, no online racing, gas factory, UI out of age..
    the new players don't care if it's more simu than simu, he watches the videos, if it pleases the eye he tests otherwise he doesn't even watch!
    nikki also had bash Iracing at the beginning, now he is addicted to the online system like everyone else! the progression, the licence, the ir/sr etc...
    Sorry for my English made in translator! :D
     
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  18. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    Well you see that old thing about "first impression" being important. In today's world a video will be the first impression for most people, that's why proper graphics matter. It doesn't have to be with over done effects.
    That's why I suggested long ago S397 need to find a way to force mods to be consistent on looks at least (since u cant force proper physics) by forcing default shaders and materials, etc to be used. Not even their own content is consistent, really.
    That's also why I think a new sim being released without worrying about keeping competibility with previous content is the only way to go, you wont get rid of the bad fame rF2 has by updating it IMO. And in any case hype sells, a new game has auto hype.
     
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  19. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    at this rate rf2 could be the last standing sim that supports mods! You would think they use that as an advantage, and make modders cme to rf2, with accessible systems!
     
  20. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    another thing whos chris haye
     

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