Best realistic cars ONLY in terms of physics and FFB

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dadaboomda, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Agree concerning the camaro. Not bad, not awesome, not the best ISI, clearly.

    Man, I strongly suggest you to buy ALL S397 DLC + ALL KARTSIM DLC..... This mods are awesome.
     
  2. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    True I think.
     
  3. Louis

    Louis Registered

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    But i should rephrase to "technically easier" because im not considering physical work and fear of death
     
  4. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    I was thinking exactly the same !
     
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  5. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I was supposed to say something along those lines. Maintaining drift in a sim is near impossible to me, but I didn’t practice much.
     
  6. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Will probably get GT3 Power Pack when it's on Steam's (summer?) sale.
    But regarding it's physics/handling:
    The thing that bugs me is that a real Mercedes AMG GT3 driver said that in rF2 the car overseers too much. He argued that a front engine/ front heavy car with long wheelbase should understeer not oversteer like that, while braking.



    Note that was on a green/low rubbered track.
    This effect could be minimized by turning on ABS (which should be enabled in GT3 cars anyway) or moving brake bias to the front.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  7. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    How about Apex GT3s? Michael Borda helped with physics (or it was done by him) so they should be realistic. I find they have less grip than Simtek GT3 or latest Enduracers GTE cars. Apex GT3s seem harder to handle, especially with default setup (brake bias 52:48 makes them oversteer easily with no ABS), similarly to ISI/S397 GT cars (Camaro GT3, C6R GT2).
     
  8. John R Denman

    John R Denman Registered

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    iDT Champ Cars are one of the best in realistic in terms of handling and setup IMO. Best but not flawless, but other than the ground clearance bug responds to driving and tuning nearly identical to the real thing.

    Mak Corp 962 is close to the real thing. Just wish the Mazda 787 and C11 weren't so "competition adjusted" to be less realistic.
     
  9. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I didn't even try Cham Cars. I thought rF1 conventions are generally not best quality in therms of physics but maybe it's an exception.
     
  10. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Cars in the latest Endurance Pack must be one of the most realistic in therms of physics. Not only because cars are in paid DLC, they use latest tech based on real data, but most importantly because of this:
    https://www.studio-397.com/2018/07/our-visit-to-duqueine-engineering/

    So they tuned handling based on feedback from real teams, especially it looks like they put a lot effort into tuning tires comparing with real telemetry and feedback from Norma LMP3 driver to make them as realistic as possible. BTW the tires previously were already build using accurate real data which itself lead to update of tire model. From what I understand the tires are shared between not only the cars in Endurance and GT3 packs.

    It seems especially Norma LMP3 should have most realistic handling since in addition to having access to real data they got feedback from real driver who spend a few days in the sim.

    On the other hand S397 didn't say anything about collaborating with real GTE teams (except Porsche). Also there's concern about Oreca 07's aero, especially Lift/Drag ratio at all settings except low downforce.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  11. vegaguy5555

    vegaguy5555 Registered

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    Nice videos.
    From the first time I tried the rF2 Go Karts I thought this feels the most realistic of anything I have driven in a sim.
     
  12. tlsmikey

    tlsmikey Registered

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    New to the sim, but the following cars are outstanding to me. I have DD wheel, so those with standard wheel may feel differently (Merc GT3).

    Favorites:
    -Porsche RSR Endurance Pack
    -Corvette C7 Endurance Pack
    -LMP2 Oreca 07
    -Corvette GT3 Pack
    -Radical GT3 Pack
    -Mclaren 650GT3

    The latest March F1 cars are great too, but they're not on the list for me because I have to crank the FFB car value to 2.00 instead of the default 1.00. Seems like the default strength is way too low.
     
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  13. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    Try the C6 GT2 chevrolet corvette by ISI
     
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  14. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    I tried on my upgraded motion rig (with 5 actuators). I found following ISI native cars feel the best on my rig:

    Renault Megane Trophy
    Radical SR3 RSX
    Corvette C6.R GT
    Nissan 370Z GT
    Nissan GT-R GT

    I regret for upgrading my rig. Now, I cannot drive other cars anymore.
     
  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    What do other cars lack? I'm assuming motion rigs use G forces and maybe suspension movement, and obviously all cars have moving suspensions and experience G forces. So I'm curious what separates cars that do or don't feel good.
     
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I am also interested whats the reason for that. I would guess that those cars he found to match the properties of his motion rig the best.

    Motion rigs have so little in common with Gforces, only good for little bit of chassis roll, squat, dive feel. And even for that probably not always correct.

    I am more than surprised that some spend BIG BIG BIG money on huge gigantic motion machines, while I think there could be much more elegant, cheaper and more effective way to do it right (for Gforces feel).
     
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  17. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    It is hard to explain. I had SimXperiece seat mover motion kit since 2012 (2dof + rear traction loss). I enjoyed the rF2 cars, but not that special, works fine with AC too. Until last year, I upgraded the rig. Basically, I made a rig by combining both chassis mover and seat mover. Using two actuators at front to move the whole chassis and add a seat mover on the top. The chassis mover is using SimTool SW and the seat mover still uses SimX SC4 SW. I thought that will give me the best of both worlds. It does indeed for the cars I listed above, which came to live (feel much more realistic now). But, F1, F3, and all classical open wheelers are no longer good. The vertical motion cue just messes up and not coherent with other motions. I cannot tune them to make work. My suspicion on this is because SimTool uses vertical g data only for heave motion. As a result, the chassis vibration mode freq is too low and feel strong eruption (too volatile) on those classical open wheelers and F1 cars. I think may need to add vertical spatial data such as rideHeight data as heave motion, that will balance out and introduce higher freq motion to yield more details of road and micro bumps, and smoothness . I am really not sure what is going wrong,,,,and how rF2 calculates an impact force (vertical g) on chassis from absorption of suspension deflection. Or also maybe to do with SimTool tuning (SimTool tuning center or so-called “dynamic compression”) as I used the same dynamic compression values that could cause this, due to that fact that open wheelers and F1 cars could have much higher dynamic range of chassis motion. I just don’t have chance to try all. SimTool has no option allowing me to set dynamic compression values, a set of max/min values, per car (can set per game).
    I know this maybe off the topic for this thread as I realized most of folks here don’t use motion rig.
    But in terms of physics, maybe worth to discuss.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  18. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    Have you tried the C7R GTE back to back with the C6R GT2? Night and day.
    In the favour of the C6R GT2.
     
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  19. mesfigas

    mesfigas Registered

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    Yep ISI cars had that physics flavor and depth that made people to keep racing and enjoy driving with their cars
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I wouldn't say it's off-topic at all; if anything I think we should welcome more different ways to analyse the physics, because people driving cars and saying they're good or bad based on basically nothing isn't very illuminating. This entire thread started as some weird question about which cars are fully realistic (none are, no simulation is the same as reality, let alone with our senses involved since we can't simulate all the feelings) and which are based on less or no real data (which is also none). Cars are interpretations of the real thing, the game is an interpretation of real life, our own experiences with the game are subjective and personal interpretations of what the game presents to us.

    I do suspect your rig is set in a way that makes it less receptive to those other cars, and perhaps it's also just giving you more of what you want to feel in the cars that produce those feelings best. But really all any of us can do is get the best out of what we have. It sounds to me like you need to adjust some settings in the 'bad' cars so you can better enjoy them, or just stick to the good cars and make do with it.

    Look at FFB - it's basically a single force, some people like what rF2 does with it, others don't, while back in rF1 it was easily editable via plugin and lots of different theories came up. Realfeel isolated the steering arm force (basically the same theory as rF2) and was lauded, but lacked at low speed, but if you took the game's complete FFB and just adjusted a few values here and there you could feel what you intended to be able to feel when you adjusted the values. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else trying your rig liked your bad cars and didn't like your good cars, just because what they want and expect to feel is different to your own ideas.

    Of course everyone wants to know the truth (especially these days) and wants to know that they're right. So we all argue about things no one can prove. But it passes the time I guess.
     

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