Conserning the use of the simcade word I too consider it useless. Hehe and a pretty foolish way of confirming oneself that "my sim is better than this" But said that then there is something basically wrong with a lot of todays racing games(IMO). And yes specially ACC. But also in a (much) lesser degree with both pCars2 and iRacing. It is a kind of short delay between ones input - and the visual reaction of the virtual car on the screen. I have not seen much discussion about this - but in my 5+ years iRacing membership I had a strange experience. I was invited to a (Brazilian arranged) online race using the NR2003 GTP mod where I decided to drive the Sauber Mercedes C9. And because Im rather serious I practiced and tweaked a good setup for this car so I was able to qualify with a low enough laptime to be admitted to race OK long story short. I used about 1 month solely in this sim! But when I came back to iRacing I could instantly feel that even comming from the (simulated) huge Sauber to my prefered tiny Lotus 79 in iRacing there was something wrong. The delay I talked about above felt terrible in iRacing - but had been not existing in the GTP mod. OK after the first day I became accustomed to this delay again - hehe and was almost verbally killed in the iRacing forum when I complained about it OK end of story: The only racing games where I feel some kind of instant connection between input and visual reaction is GPL, NR2003 mods(both Papyrus), rF2 and an another oldie netKarPRO. Yes and absolutely Raceroom. pCars2 is (somewhat) acceptable while the new ACC is the worst. ByTheWay: This has nothing to do with any (mandatory!) FFB lag/delay because eventhough I own a T500 I prefer my non FFB SRW-S1 wheel.
There has to be very tiny delay because of tire relaxation length. It always takes a little bit of travel distance for a tire to develop forces. If thats the thing you are talking about @Nielsen P.S. iRacing Lotus 49 is disaster, it is unbalanced, and they have put modern tire on it to make it "easier" and "more popular", and they have it seriously broken.
I'm glad I have other sims. Most important miss (for me) is the choice for UE4 engine that does not allow (yet ?) proper triple screen support. It is - what, 3 months now, and I have registered 4 hrs of driving in the darn thing. I simply can't stand the stretched view on the side screens. It's like going back in time. It does not feel good, it does not look good. It's like driving in a cartoon and despite my GTX1080ti I still have pretty low FPS count, stuttering, flickering...and yes, the FFB seems to lag (OSW/simucube here). I know very well that it is EA, so no complaining about content (we knew up front what was coming), but the fact that Kunos even refuses to give an answer about the triple support yes/no really turns me off. And tbh, that UI
I want to share my mega post which I wrote this summer. I am aware that some things might be wrong. I would also add some stuff like correct alignment of SAT curve to slip angles, because you can literally make FFB which corrects car faster than you can, and I think AC and ACC(apart first release) has some of that. Anyway, here is megapost with my tire physics observations, not everything might be correct, but thats why i shared it, to discuss... but not much discussion happened. Jun 1, 2018 ****************************************************************************************************************** To everyone who is into simulation, and the pursuit of realsim. I mean realism. (If you are fresh weekly content drooler, ten minutes "tryer", and judging cars physics by how perfect the model looks, then don't read) Hello, I have been studying tires for a while. Studying them in AC, studying them in real life, comparing. Reading books, articles, works, observing videos and so on. I am definitely not saying that I know a lot about tires right now, but a little bit for sure. Tire, as Paul Haney writes, is one of the most complex devices. I am not assuming that these things which I am going to mention are wrong in the code in AC, or they are wrong in the parameters of car physics .ini files, maybe those things are wrong in combined ways, or they are not wrong at all, just they seems so to me. Also in my opinion some cars are more believable than others, I don't know if some are nailed better by Aris, or the codes written by Stefano fits some cars better. I think older AC cars are better. But it must be mentioned that there are ton of official cars in AC, "kunos quality" is a known thing, and indeed overall AC quality is very consistent, but I hink that some things are just a bit better in some places than the others, especially speaking of such complex subject as vehicles physics, of which the tire is probably the biggest secret. 1. Tires grip falloff In my opinion most if not all AC tires has too little falloff, or I could also say too much falloff grip. That thing alone makes driving much more zoned, drifting less of a thing. Every time you go too much over the slip angles or ratios, greater falloff makes you take more effort to keep the car in precise control, or in control. greater falloff makes rear end more tending to "run away" as you spin your tires out of slower corners, oversteering makes you move your arms faster, locking tires under braking is more of an issue. Transitions from oversteer to neutral slides to regained traction is more noticeable with also variations of back and forth - as you might have an oversteer switching to neutral little slide and back to oversteer again if you put the power down too soon... Few little examples: This twitchyness is very much the falloff of grip, cold tires makes it extreme. Not a drift missile at all, even though obviously it loves slip angles, but it is not a drift car. Of course we could argue that there could have been oil, which ofcourse would make for great grip drop. This is absolutely insane. Again lowish temps makes it more extreme, afaik it was 12C then in GW. Also you might say that we have more advanced GT40 with wider tires in AC, but I think it still should behave at least a little bit like that. 2. Tires load timing Now this is rather complex. Tires doesn't react instantly to inputs, they have relaxation length phenomenon, also a bit of flex. Moreover, front tires are always a bit ahead of rear tires in terms of timing because they are steered, and.....in front. Rear tires has a bit of delay on top of fronts. Also often we have rear tires wider which also makes front vs rear tires behavior slightly different, and timing too. Relaxation length depends on load and slip angle, more load more length to react, more slip less length to react. Lateral tire flex is more influencing narrower tires, because logically particular amount of deflection will be more noticeable if it relates with narrower tire, visually and physically too. Tires load timing contributes to putting more effort in choosing turn in point, cars slides feels less linear, wheels feels more individual, coming back from slides gives slight speed wobbles unless you make inputs very very well. If a car has scrub radius flex and relaxation lengths can amplify it quite a bit. Few little examples: 0:17 This Superperformance GT40 wobbles like crazy, it is combination of how tires falloff and then regain grip and the tires timing goes. 0:20 this old thing realy maginfying the phenomenons. You can see front vs rear are moveing very much on their own, they seem like they has their own inertia each and they oscilates in different way, it oversteers > understeers > oversteers > understeers till it clears the turn. I think many cars moves like this when on the very limit, especially if driver like to be a bit more rough, I think even modern cars does that, just with way lower, perhaps sometimes even invisible motions, well sometimes maybe very visible... 3. Grip and load sensitivity I think some tires/cars in AC feels like if they have too low static grip and then too little incremental grip curve drop as the tires gets loaded very unevenly in high speed turns. Sometimes low speed bend feels a bit too slippy, and high speed bend feels a bit too safe. It is very tricky stuff, I am just thinking. For example Nordschleife karousel is not a very fast corner, it also has very big banking in concrete part inside. So it is not a fast corner, and because of great banking tire loads will be more even(edit 2018 11 17: certain banking angle also cancels the need of surface friction for certain speed), thats why you should be able to be surprisingly fast there, sometimes it feels that you are not so much in AC. Also it is concrete surface, in terms of surface it is not going to be more grippy than tarmac I think, adhesion might be better, but not mechanical keying - rubber penetrating irregularities. Higher neutral grip, and more grip loss because of load sensitivity in combination with grip falloff levels and speeds plus manipulating wheels timing with flex and relaxation length might be a nice touch, and I believe a realism improving touch in many cases. I am glad if you actually read it all, I know I don't have a reputation as someone who "knows things", but I think it is always awesome to think, share and discuss. ***************************************************************************************************************************
Indeed. Many of the "gentleman" drivers are just terrible. Small teams need the rich boys' money, but not if they have to turn around and spend it on repairs. I remember seeing a video of a guy from a car magazine driving a GT3 -- If I remember correctly it was an AMG. They told him he could abuse the throttle as much as he wanted and the TC would keep it from spinning. The GT3 class is simcade in real life.
tire relaxation length! No no. At least I think its not that at all All such kind of "natural reaction time" (like as example weigh transfer time) is completely OK. Actually they support the imersion. What Im talking about is (probably) some unnatural and unintuitive game engine calculation time where the result is that the complete immersion from RL disappears. But as our brain is extremely adaptable then we forget this when we get accustomed to something like a certain racing game. But as in my Brazil example I could suddenly feel it when the natural/instant connection is taken away - when I returned to iRacing :-(
I am not that obsessed with the absolute mathematical precision of physics, after all of those sims are games really. Subjectively, ACC felt good to me and seems promising (really like the idea of real world series simulated deeply), but last time I drove it it had no damage and no flat spots. Without those features it is useless to me, but let's see how release will be.
When I watched people play ACC and without ever playing myself because I refuse to pay a penny to it due of my experience with AC for a short time before rF2 and AMS replaced it, I knew all along from the Feb 14 launch trailer that ACC is going to be some simcade bullshit marketed as a realistic simulator (the same practice SMS did for PC2) because after all, it what these gamers want and they'll always be dismissive toward rF2 and AMS. I knew I was right and rather than be disappointed again, I rather quit this hobby. I'll never touch ACC with a bargepole knowing I'm not going to buy into their bullshit marketing tactics TBH, if ACC and PC2 represent the direction this sim racing hobby have became (emphasis toward simcade playability to improved physics dressed up with fancy graphics and VR as well as esport) then I think it's best to cut my loss and walk away because I don't see much of what is left
Your reflections about grip loosing and regaining curves sounds thoughtfull and could be even better aimed against iRacings tire model. Because the rather "digital"(abrupt) way iRacing cars suddenly loose grip is only surpassed by the awkward way the cars refuses to regain grip again - even if you lower the speed to something like walking speed Hehe ofcourse all the iRacing fanboys refused this has ever been a problem - until iRacings tire model guru Keammer in the beginning of 2018 suddenly published a lenghty word diarré where there were hidden a slight admission that something actually was/is wrong with iRacings grip/no grip transition. But since then nobody has heard anything from his asylum
So you didn't even drive the game but decided to judge it entirely based on some trailer and a previous experience of a different game. I think rain in ACC is currently the best that has ever been simulated, both physics and graphics wise, so there you already have one reason to try it out. The proof of this is that forums are full of people whinging that rain racing is too difficult in ACC.
Now hold on tight, Tommy: I like rfactor 2, Iracing, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, sometimes even some car and track combinations in pcars 2 can be nice. And I'm glad that I don't have a narrow minded view in this small niche which is called simracing. ACC is what it is right now: early access.
