I could provide motec log but I don't think it will be useful because I'm not the best driver to say at least But anyway I enjoy your mod, thanks for the effort and keep up good work!
Would be great if some guys could show some love to the ai s for offline players. They are a bit chaotic
@yoss OK I thought about Ferrari and BMW Z4, because I found release information back from 2015: - Michael Borda tweaked the Camaro GT3 ISI physics. - Michael worked on the physics for the Z4 GT3 and 458; new .tgm files for thse two cars. And that also Marek Leśniak worked on physics. Now all cars' physics where done to same extent by Michael Borda or some where only tweaked by him? I've read Camaro GT3 physics is essentialy the same as ISI version. Maybe for some cars physics where made entirely by MB? How did you get data for the cars?. Are all the cars have now the same tires ( provided by MB)? Yesterday I drove Ferrari and BMW Z4 on Spa(convertion) and the cars had surprisingly good grip and weren't hard to handle, unlike my previous experience i.e on Le Mans track. I didn't change setup much, i.e. moved brake bias 2% forward. By default cars from your mod are similar to ISI cars i.e. they oversteer much when trail braking (of course without ABS). Edit: Forgot to add that although Simtek cars seem easier to handle (less oversteer) I was 6 seconds faster driving Ferrari or BMW from Apex. Simtek has good brakes but it takes significantly more time to reach high speed (at least using default setups). The Apex cars have higher top speed, although on Le Mans straights the eventually reach it . Also can anyone confirm is Ferrari 854 actually renamed 458 Italia?
Some things we cannot discuss, like Slow Motion and the GP3 mod. Apex has some racing contacts, a few engineers and team members that have helped in the past.
OK so Apex Modding also worked with engineers to get accurate data. Was the physics/handling also tuned physics based on real telemetry? GP3 even got real drivers feedback to make fine tune handling. Anyway I think if you get good, real data and Michal Borda helped with the physics (and provided tires?) it must lead to decent result . It makes sense because most cars in this mod handle similar to ISI/S397 GT cars. BTW: Did MB work on the cars' physics to the same extent, or he only provided know how , examples, tools and the rest of cars where only tuned by him? I asked about it because I play rF2 the most and the reason is it has the best physics and FFB IMO. This makes up for it's disadvantages. But even with best commercially available physics engine the handling is only as good as a mod that uses it's capabilities. There are many "broken" mods that handle unrealistic. Even good modders like Enduracers had significant problems with physics in the first releases, because the engine requites knowledge and it's harder to achieve good result. I've read that's why many rF1 modders moved to AC. If there is too much guess work, no attention to details and comparison with real cars, then of course result unrealistic behavior. I understand most mods are free, but if they can't get the physics and handling right, why not make mod for different sim, where it would be much easier and probably cars will look better Even if a car achieve similar lap times it's not fun if they behave totally unrealistic (grip, traction at various slip angles, inertia, oversteer/understeer etc. ). In such case why not use Forza, Grand Turismo Sport or NFS Shift - the have better graphics, UI and can be also fun, but aren't real sims. That's why I appreciate that mods put a lot of work to have realistic handling and make good use rF2's physics engine capabilities( follow S397 recommendations, adapt latest CPM tires etc). So thanks for that and keep up the good work. BTW: Is there a way to donate?
I agree (and even aware of that) I'm probably too concerned about physics and handling realism, but at the same I find the same cars handle much different across sims (even if both are considered realistic). Even in rF2, same cars in different mods or a DLC often handle much different. Also you can sometimes see in real footages they also can behave quite different (cars slide more/less, different braking points, are easier to save etc.). Edit: One argument could be if you want compare your performance, lap times to real ones, one would want to have similar level of difficulty, like traction at the same speed. But yeah since I don't really race on a track nor use it for training etc. then shouldn't care so much.
It is perfectly fine to be interested or even concerned about the level of realism or what is emulated. Just take it a bit easier on the interrogation . So here is a generalized response that can also serve as a statement for our work. We have used telemetry and as mentioned before about Michael Borda, he provided immense help with his knowledge where ours was lacking or outdated at that point in time. If you have looked up information on not just mods but the game, you know there have been several changes whilst documentation has not always been up to par. Instead of doing trial and error and guesswork, he stepped in and gave us what we needed. We have to mention Chris "redapg" as someone else who provided a lot of help with his tools. We could then reapply or build off new knowledge. There is no point going through all the work and hassle to get things right, and deliver something subpar at least on the driving aspect, right? We have recently incorporated a couple of members with excellent feel for the car, behavior or force feedback, as well as being very quick (you could call a couple of them "aliens") who can tweak setups and find faults, or exploits. Recently p1-gaming.de has become a partner as they use our mods on their leagues and through such, provide us with actual user racing data from thousands of laps from where we can further tweak the balance of performance, or sort out glitches or areas that need tweaks. More recently we've identified one engine has excessive wear after a certain period of time, and another car that is getting ballast tweaked by 5kg. Some members do have racing experience at different levels, some members have extensive modding experience, some overlap. Given not everything is perfect either, we also assume room for some leeway in interpretation so it feels and drives as it should. We can't always fix things but we try to reduce camber, pressure, or suspension exploits as an example. Real life numbers don't always work. Lastly, thank you for asking about donating. Usually there is only criticism - not always constructive or detailed - or praise, or demands. Very rarely contributions in the form of work or a donation come about. We would love to always offer free work but expenses and especially required time have only escalated, so much we have had to do a couple of non-public projects to keep the modding alive, and that is not sustainable. Donation link :thumbsupemojihere:
Thanks for the info. As I said it makes sense that "physics wizard" , from S397 helped, because the cars handle similar to ISI/S397 cars. For instance they can oversteer similarly while trail braking (specifically braking too hard at slow speeds/low downforce). That's essentially what I've understood what "Slow motion" said regarding GP3 mod: that even if you put real data and know what you are doing, you still get inaccurate results(i.e. differences when comparing telemetry at various conditions). Because even rF2's physics engine has it's limitations and sometimes you need to translate or even "fudge" some data to produce end result that's closest to reality. By the way, out of curiosity I opened S397 physics calculator tool (excel spreasheet), when it was updated last time. But the amount of worksheets and parameters were quite overwhelming and after several minutes trying to understand it I got headache, don't know why That itself shows how much work goes into creating a mod with decent physics. Of course that's not to say creating 3D models, textures and animations from scratch is easy Good thing is S397 is constantly improving things. For instance in their blog regarding the latest Endurance Pack release: "Our close collaboration with teams and manufacturers have given us even more detailed insight into the tyres that they are running on these cars. On top of that, our laser scanned version of Sebring gave us an excellent opportunity to compare data to a 100% accurate track. The data prompted us to make some updates to our model" So they refined CPM 2 tire model and hopefully will provide them in tire examples database for modders to adapt. The new tire model will be also used in the existing official GT3 Power Pack so it will suit all similar cars.
exactly what we need at the moment...which is... the experienced that S397 will put into the sim great time
Great that you decided to work to adapt CPM 2 tires! It's significant improvement. You probably know but S397 has yet another update in their tire CPM (that was refined during Endurance Pack development). Do you know if S397 already release examples of these new tires?
Will the new 397 TC system by implimented in the next update as well as position indicators? These cars are quite well balanced against the new Endurance Pack.
Really? Because I find them few seconds quicker that Simtek or GT3s in AC. Didn't compare to Endurance Pack though.
I raced at Silverstone on Sunday with the new GT pack plus the Apex Bentley and Ferrari and they did well against each other.
This is incorrect. AI utilize whatever setup they're provided by default, and if it is poor, it causes huge steering rotation for small corners. This then equals terrible laptimes when AI lose control. AIW is a huge factor but so aero that is assigned to AI.
