Released Introducing KartSim!

Something like you can only add a certain amount of dlc to steam and since there's going to be so much for rf2 then it made more sense to put it there.

 

That does not seem right, since you have some extremes examples on Steam:
1) Train Simulator has 422 DLCs ($5,000 in total).
2) Fantasy Grounds has 893 DLCs.

 

First, we shouldn't assume the sim isn't. The problem is that a real kart can be set up to be understeery and safe or it can be set up to be on the edge and fast. Tyres are obviously also a factor. Now, in real life as a kart operator you don't want to have edgy karts that complete amateurs (despite their mostly inflated egos due to some years/decades watching motorsport) can't consistently drive around the track without spinning, and you don't want people to have more chance of getting hurt. So you're going to have the karts on the safe side.

The rental place I went to locally has the 390cc karts on the site you've linked (pretty much the same anyway), and the only thing you need to drive them is to be old enough and to sit through a 10 minute 'safety video' that basically just tells you not to be an idiot. Then you're out on track with a mix of keen amateurs who are fairly quick, some midfielders who can get their way around the track without really understanding racing lines, and a few people who don't know what an apex is and sometimes don't even hold the throttle all the way down (so you get a third of the way along the straight and max out at the purported 80kph, then 5 seconds later have to slow down to take the high speed chicane because the person in front isn't going full speed - ever)

Those karts are fun to drive still, because it's not something you get to do every day. For me it was cool to get some real sensations, though spinning under braking wasn't much fun and took a few goes to start learning to catch, and then trying to maximise corner speed without understeering off at mid corner or exit. But that's all I was ever going to do without having the kart dancing around under brakes and into corner entry - once that rear was planted, full throttle was only ever pushing me off the track, not turning me around. Still a challenge, and still fun for the experience.

In a sim, where everyone's the next Senna and pushing hard everywhere carries no sense of danger, understeer like that isn't popular. The cars that understeer (and/but make good learning tools because you need to get the entry speed and line right) are rarely chosen for online racing certainly.

Personally I would like it if the sim karts were (or had an option to be) more like the rental karts people can go and drive. It might be a better starting point for people, and it would be better as a parallel to what people may have actually experienced themselves (which can only improve the sense of the sim being accurate). But I can understand why it's not only set up that way, and I doubt most people would choose that option. I would, don't get me wrong.

 

This whole conversation is a bit weird because the tailhappiness is not actually an issue but the way it happens and how the tyres reacts over the limit is. Big trouble.

If I watch my onboards from real rental kart runs there's quite a lot of neutral steer moments in mid-corner which means that the car is sliding but not once it tries to bite me the way these ingame rentals do almost every single corner.

Not sure if the game engine has some issues producing believeable tyre behaviour with the cars as lightweight as karts when the tyre pressures is set as high as they do ingame. Pressures between X30 and rental are very, very different. And atleast in my country X30's doesn't use some ultrasoft bubblegum tyres but actually quite hard compound which doesn't even make the track surface super grippy.

Too much rotation is not fast nor fun. Karting with low power is all about momentum and the car have to be nicely balanced to keep the momentum. Balance is the key. With the real karts you can do huge balance adjustment on the fly by moving your seat which will result a night-and-day-like change in behaviour. That already would be awesome feature.

Rental karts are fun to drive in real life and in sims just like some MX5 Cup cars because even the cars are super easy to handle they are unbelieveably hard to maximize the performance.

 

These were your words to which I replied:

"I doubt we'll see much correlation between any normal rental karts and these in-game ones."

 

'normal' as in understeering. The sim might be doing a good job of simulating a rental kart set up to go fast, instead of a rental kart set up for the public to come and race with their mates.

 

I don't buy your dumbed down theory for rental karts. The place were I go you can see spins from the less experienced drivers. Even if it was true, the sim should be able to replicate that dumbed down setup. What's the purpose of including rental cars in the package otherwise? I would day to recreate the same sensations as when you go to a rental kart place.

Edit: besides you admitted having only one experience with real rental karts. So basing all your statements in pure speculation does not provide much to your argument.

 

so for me the new rental karts are no better than ISI karts.. Which makes only one kart in this pack worth it, and for that asking price hhhmm not sure - I'm not that interested in simulated karts - which never feel quite right.

 

@SPASKIS Yes, I admitted up front and back on page 6 or something when I replied to @Devin , who spoke of the same thing with much more authority.

 

Sorry @Lazza but you keep messing the conversation.

@Devin said "The KartSim rentals don't capture true rental kart racing 100% if you ask me (partly because that depends on so many factors that they simply can't), but they're totally not the point of the pack."

I said that under that situation I wouldn't buy the pack since I am more interested in rental karts than in race karts I will never drive.

You later stated that we shouldn't assume that the sim is not being realistic.

My point is that the sim should represent rental cars as we know them when we go to a standard karting place. Otherwise, the mod is not realistic and is not worth buying it for me.

 

One talks about realistic physics and other talks about realistic setup.

 

"don't capture true bla bla 100%" is FAR FAR FAR and a little more far than "the mod is not realistic".
A simulation by definition will never be 100% realistic, otherwise it is called reality.

 

I have no interest in karts in sim so not buying this, but in the city I live when I drove them (rental) you had to try reaaaaaaaaally hard to make them spin even in the big bump it had in a corner

 

The COG (center of gravity) in a real kart can be altered depending on the driver's weight, the height of the seat and the ground clearance. For example, the kart I used to own as a teenager effortlessly did 70mph (80 when I spiked it with RC nitro fuel which I do not recommend if you get nervous) with me in it and I could drift, donut, slide, etc. at will. It was also stable if I chose not to drive it that way. By comparison it would not spin for my quite large friend. It would also not reach the same speed it did when I piloted it. For my friend it was neutral/understeer and for me it was just neutral. You could simulate these things along with a kart but why?

There is also the possibility that some of you do not have your steering set up correctly in the first place, thus making the Karts and all other vehicles drive odd.

I did not buy the DLC but my reason is the truthful lack of money for it, not pages of other people's opinions.

 

This is a general approach, not just focusing on you, Will. Arrive-and-drive rental karts are 6bhp and less, often in indoor tracks with not only tarmac as a surface and insufficient real estate to even reach 40-50km/h for a split second. Spins will often come from braking in the corner with the wheel already being turned, or at the same moment. On outdoor circuits where you can sustain high speeds and reach the rental's top speed, you will have a bogged down oversteer moment (gentle way of saying 180º spin) on corners of medium and high radius if you go beyond the slip angle. On 150º+ corners, even if you lift sufficiently, take a very wide approach and coast, you'll likely find yourself busy with the wheel to keep the kart facing the right way as it skates about exiting the apex.

 

Why the x30 has fixed setup? Is it so irl?

 

Ok I’m back home
Re-installed rfactor2
Purchased kartsim & got it running

How do I get the actual steering wheel to match virtual movements ?

To my surprise I realise I’ve had about 10hrs in total over the 8 weeks I’ve been away with similar karts ( 270cc ) so to come back to these virtual ones is a treat

Will need to put about 5hrs in to time into the virtual ones before deciding if they are for me or not , so far it looks like a quality pack -much needed for rfactor2 & great value

First quick impression they seem overly planted ( grip is high ) , but I need more time prior to judgment etc

Just need to setup vibration/motion &
Check ffb values etc prior to this weekend of virtual karting fun


EDIT : just checked Info , the faster kart in this pack I think is 125cc but it looks & sounds very similar
If this is a hit I hope more perhaps bigger engine karts are released for purchase & of course tracks

 

For matching virtual wheel vs physical wheel, make sure to set lock to lock degrees of your wheel to match kart degrees. In controls page of rF2, it shows as 187 degrees. I had to set my CSW to 190 degrees to match, auto doesn't work.

 

This mod is a basic version of the pro mod (some hundreds of Euro to buy), and one of the limitations is the fixed setup.

 

Great physics. Beautiful tracks. Don't know if 20€ is the right price but the mod is really good!