I've an old license but a new PC

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by Iketani, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    A lot of people in our web didn't receive the famous email.
    They knew about it because som of us visit the forum more or less daily
    My words weren't referred to the case of iketani.
    The way they made the change to Steam wasn't the best for their customers.
    I'm really happy with rF2, but i think they didn't that in the best way.
    And that's the reason because this type of thread appears from time to time.
     
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  2. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I understand that the final decision is always up the interpretation of a judge.

    These users are not eligible to play against the rest of the rF2 community. They are not elligible to use either latest content as Radical that requires using latest build.
    They paid for a lifetime license of a game that still lives and is still being supported. In order to be eligible for these product updates they were forced to do a transfer to another platform and weren't properly notified about it.

    IMO this is changing the EULA. Furthermore, the new EULA is Studio397's and former one was ISI's.

    I am not an expert but apparently the way being used is far from being recommended.

    Extracted from the linked website.
    • Browsewrap refers to legal agreements placed somewhere on your website, mostly in the footer section of the website. The links are visible, but users may not be aware of the legal agreements they’re agree to.
    • Clickwrap, on the other hand, is when you require users to confirm that they have read and agreed to your legal agreements beforethey sign-up, log-in, submit a form, download an app etc.
      Clickwrap is the classic “I agree to”checkbox.
    A clickwrap agreement is an enforceable agreement, while a browsewrap isn’t isn’t.

    Not providing an update notice about upcoming changes to your legal agreements is similar to a browsewrap agreement: if the user isn’t aware of the changes, the user can argue that she/he couldn’t have agreed to the new terms because the terms weren’t presented properly.

    Providing a notice that you’ll update your legal agreements isn’t limited to only a few agreements, but to any agreements that governs the relationship between you and users:

    • Terms and Conditions
    • Privacy Policy
    • Cookies Policy
    • EULA
    • Community Guidelines
    • Code of Conduct
    • Acceptable Use Policy
    • Terms for the API
    • Service Level Agreement
    • And so on
    Email is the most popular method to provide notice, but this requires you to have the email address of your users.


    https://termsfeed.com/blog/update-notice-legal-agreements/
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  3. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    I never bought rFactor 2 with the lifetime license of the game. What I bought was rFactor 2 Lifetime = offline/multiplayer/no subscription required.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    S397 could have started a new game, or bought the rF2 core and left rF2 to die. Then there's still hardly anyone on rF2 Build 1098 and no one has what they have now (or to look at it another way: everyone has to buy again, instead of some people). Is that really better?

    And yeah, it's easy to cast doubt on legalities. Fact is until someone launches legal proceedings we don't know what would win. rF2 build 1098 is a fully functioning game. That hasn't been taken away from people, and in many of these threads already represents a significant upgrade on what they last played, because they seem to pop up from 2013 or so.
     
  5. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    S397 have argue that they didn't went for "rF3" because they wanted to kept the already licensed content... but they don't keep all the licensed customers... isn't it a bit of a nonsense!?!

    When Renault bought Nissan, does it have removed the Nissan warranty and responsability?

    @Lazza It's not really about legalities (even if it's really "borderline" on that domain), but more about customer respect...
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  6. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @Stan You're the one who mentioned 'legally' in this thread.
     
  7. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    @Lazza Yes, I mentioned 'legally', because customer respect don't seem valuable to some of you... but it don't change the facts!
    Once again, and legally (or not), does Renault buying Nissan have removed the Nissan warranty?
    Nope. Neither morally nor legally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  8. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    My mortgage company changed hands,they changed a lot of things including upping the minimum payment requirements,should have I cried my way to my lawyers,or just do what I did,and paid what I owed.
     
  9. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    Basically the problem boils down to customer service, in particular in regards to refunds. What I've noticed since the advent of the Internet is that each nation has its own perception of what is morally right and wrong.

    When I was 16 I worked part-time at Debenhams, and literally customer service was at the forefront of every training session and on the tongue of every manager. The customer could get a refund on an item of clothing even without the receipt and when the item had clearly been worn for several months. Amazon's success is at least partially due to its customer service as well; books can be refunded within 14 days of purchase and if you buy a new Kindle and it later comes on sale, you can get back the difference. iRacing is another example, where I got a refund on one Nascar and two oval tracks when I asked for a refund on the simple basis that after playing (for a few weeks no less) I preferred to invest my money on road circuits.

    Customer service is vital to increase customer satisfaction and loyalty, but it varies considerably from country to country. As a pure observation, the Nordic countries, where I believe the CEO is from, don't have a strong culture of customer service (I've noticed this from other Nordic sites). The British and Americans, however, do give a huge importance to customer satisfaction. Hence why their service sector is so strong.

    In my opinion, to buy a lifetime membership for rF2 means exactly that. It's only to check the customer invoice and offer them a Steam key and irrate and possible lost customers become satisfied customers and perhaps continued customers as more DLC packs are introduced.

    But it's the route Studio 397 has taken; it's simply a case of accepting their rules and buying it again, or not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
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  10. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Did you read more the one word (lifetime) when you bought rFactro 2 ? I don`t think you did.
     
  11. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    I agree, lifetime is lifetime, but the situation is more complicated than that. Those who want to use their old rF2 non-Steam version can still do so, nothing will prevent them. They can even host multiplayer games provided that clients join with the old version. There is nothing in lifetime that IMO necessitates that you will be provided with updates forever in the future, they could have cut off updates in the first year and nobody could legally complain about that. EA and other big companies have even cut off multiplayer servers and functionality entirely of many of their old games, and apparently they have the right to do so, which efficiently means that a multiplayer only game becomes unplayable.

    The fact that S397 now offers a Steam version of rF2 that is vastly different and how this conflicts with "ISI rF2 build 1098" is another matter, but it's not as simple as some people think.
     
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  12. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    Good exemple, if you have been stupid enough to agree and sign on a variable mortgage reimbursement, yes you have too... but if you were wise enough to find/take a fix rate (or a lifetime service), well, your lawyer will have no problem justifying your rights!
     
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  13. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    They didn't offer a fixed rate to begin with,so yes it is a good example of how things can change when company's merger or get taken over.
     
  14. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    The best way to clarify this would be to make an official common claim and let a judge decide. No need to get angry about it.
     
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  15. Stan

    Stan Registered

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    @patchedupdemon A lifetime license would easly be assimilate to a fix rate, you pay/sign for "lifetime" agreement... that's the purpose of fix rates... you agree once... if there are changes, you have to agree on it again (or not)...
     
  16. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    Did you read more than the one word (lifetime) when you read my post? I don't think you did.
     
  17. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I agree it's a complex situation because rF2 has changed hands. I was simply offering a solution that I think would be fair to all parties. Theoretically, Studio 397 would gain in the long-term if they are confident of rF2's success and provide enough decent and varied DLC content. Those who bought the "lifetime" membership and feel "cheated" will not buy it again out of principle rather than out of cost since it's a relatively inexpensive game even at full price.

    One can assume that the majority of those who bought the "lifetime" membership were devotees of the rFactor 1 but became disillusioned with the development of rFactor 2. Surely it's better to have them onboard and to fill up the servers and act as a further source of revenue via DLC at no cost to Studio 397 (since Stream keys are free for the developer to hand out) than to drive them away completely.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  18. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Have you ever bought non Steam rFactor 2 DX9?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  19. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    Ari I'm sorry but I'm not going to get into a discussion about this. I just offered a suggestion. Please leave it at that.
     
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  20. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    Was just wondering becourse you joined forums Jun 23, 2017 and thought that you may have copy about that mail which @Stan is asking in hes post # 13. But it is fine I can just zip it np ;)
     

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