How can we help

Discussion in 'Online Racing Discussion' started by patchedupdemon, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    when ever I look for populated servers,I am always left disappointed,I have yet to actually even join one as there hasn't been enough people or the server is locked.
    For rf2 to really have a sustainable future,the online racing should be one of top priorities,I think we can all agree on that,and s397 have made some encouraging remarks on this.

    But I've been thinking (yeah I know,you're shouting oh god I wish he would stop) that we as members could help build upon the online aspect of this game,by all coming together and some how organising open server series.

    Now you may say we already are doing that,but I can't believe at anyone time there's only like 20 people actually playing rf2 and all those are in these locked leagues.

    Am I flogging a dead horse here,is it a case of just too little active members,I started this thread to ask people thoughts opinions and suggestions,so feel free to reply with them,actually pls reply,and let's try and work something out.

    Sorry I can't actually add any suggestions as I can't think of anything viable that isn't already being done,hence this topic.
     
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  2. Nibiru

    Nibiru Registered

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    I think S397 have a plan to help the online they just need to get the new UI sorted.
    I also think that the average age of rF2 users is around 40-42 so I'd guess most are married have kids and only get limited time. I know that's the case with me and a lot of my members.
    But it will be nice to see the numbers improve.
    Our servers are never locked and always have the missing content set up. The only thing we ask is your on TS for race night.
     
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  3. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    Two words: "content", "features"

    When rF2 will have enough "content" (not niche one, we need more appealing tracks and cars), and will be complete with "features" (look at AMS for reference) you will see an increase on multy...in the meantime we can still try to bring some friends...
     
  4. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    From what I gathered Ams online is no better for having what you said.

    Content and features are not the key to this
     
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  5. DaVeX

    DaVeX Registered

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    AMS should be used as reference to see how a polished product should work/look, online isn't succesfull beause it is perceived as "old" and with "obscure" content...
    For content a good reference could be the old GTR2 or AC, the first one because is able to recreate a full series, the latest to his rich car roster...
    Most users, like me are more casual than hardcore, we want to race well know tracks with well know cars without loosing the deep of a sim, maybe we are wrong, but this is how the market works...at least, in my opinion...
     
  6. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    As a matter of interest which tracks do you see as wanting in rf2 ? I also feel the massive car content wouldn't be a major draw card , l simply don't race/ drive any street cars in sims but that may just be me and having tons of servers with (to me ) boring cars isn't going to get huge numbers in any one server but spread across many. Jmho
     
  7. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    As i said in an other topic, when you have a lot of people online in a racing game every race is a destruction derby (Assetto Corsa, Project CARS and more), and when you have good and fair people the multiplayer is a wasteland (rF2, AMS).

    The immediate key for a good public online experience is: join a public server with originals content (or most used mods) and 4-5 friends, and these 6 drivers can become 15 in few minutes.

    Looking forward, the key is: less league play (so make leagues life more difficult - iRacing style), and more official events and championships.

    IMO there are so many online drivers, but we are badly divided, 10 here, 15 there... We need a big and official central lobby with casual and competitive mode based on ranks (MOBA games, Rocket League, competitive FPS style).

    And make rF2 an e-Sports.
     
  8. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I also agree the problem isn't the lack of content; since getting rFactor I've spent the whole time at Spa 66 with the Brabham. I also agree that it's best to race well-known tracks in well-known cars otherwise you'll be well off the pace in an online race and many of us don't have the time to learn new tracks and cars.

    I had the idea of renting a server which would be open 24/7, initially just the Brabham at Spa. It's better to practice with others online, share setups and tips, and get to know each other so we could organise two "official" half-distance (about one hour) races on Saturdays and Sundays.

    Spa is a good choice as it must be popular with all historic fans, it's relatively easy to learn yet difficult to drive fast constantly, and slower drivers wouldn't need to be so concerned about being lapped or "getting in the way" because of the length of the circuit. Ideally it would be a place where all historic fans would feel comfortable on a track they enjoy. Being a long race, it would also separate those who can only hot lap since damage would be set at 100%, and would encourage drivers to conserve their tyres and drive within their limits. Drivers could either drive all out to win while others could take it relatively easy and go for the full-distance. During the week it would just host the default practice, qualifying and 5 or 10 lap race.

    The problem is hosting. If the server were to be up 24/7 then it's best to rent it, also I personally don't have an Internet connection fast enough, nor a powerful enough computer to host, and even then I couldn't leave it switched on while at work or in bed. Although I do have a site I where I could display the live timings.

    However, after some research I only found two affordable options for rentable hosting, yet despite having numerous servers on countless games they are unable to get it working for rFactor 2. You can see their responses below. Incidentally, EliteGameServers responded within the hour and was signed by the founder, they have (or at least had) four servers up and running but it was unable to connect to them. They also include Live Timings so I believe they do take rFactor 2 seriously but just can't seem to get it working. They do charge more however, 18 euros for 16 slots, but I'm quite sure regular drivers would donate 1 euro a month to whoever paid for the server via PayPal. In that case, the official weekend races would be locked via a password to those who donated to avoid them missing a race due to not having enough slots.

    I did read in one of the blogs that simplified hosting will come with the new UI, so it's probably just a case of waiting. Once hosting is simplified, then hopefully you'll find more servers running. Also, ideally, we would rent the servers directly from the developers of rfactor, rather than go through a third-party. This would mean it would not just always be up to date with the latest version, but also theoretically easier to setup, and would also act as a means of financial support.


    MarksMods Reply:
    Thanks for contacting us. Our apologies for the late reply! We still offer rFactor 2, however we do not offer customer support anymore for this game as it is pretty complicated to setup correctly, so you have to figure things out by yourself.

    That being said, feel free to order a rFactor 2 game server if you have the knowledge to get the server up and running by yourself. If you aren't able to get the game up and running within a couple of days by yourself, we will offer you a full refund! :). Please let us know if this works for you.

    EliteGameServers Reply:
    We're currently experiencing some odd issues with the rFactor 2 dedicated servers, we've contacted the developers and are awaiting a solution from them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
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  9. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Look at games where online works as you expect and check for differences.

    In my opinion the keys are:

    - only servers that you can join should be visible. The passworded server filter and installed(or downloadable) content filter would be nice to have. Servers with enabled downloads should be

    - downloads should work flawless which is something that still needs to be achieved. Vmods updating content (to suit league reqs) should be supported which actually aren't.

    - make rF2 stable fixing old bugs that were never addressed by ISI before starting new projects. The wheel needs to be kept rolling.
     
  10. CamiloNino

    CamiloNino Registered

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    I think there is one easy thing we can all do right now to help with this, if you see a server you would like to have more people but is at 0 at the moment, join it, and stay there for a while, this might attract other people too. It has worked with me and the S397 Sao Pablo server in the past.

    I was actually thinking about setting up a "classic" rF1 Megane server (just meganes on ISI tracks) and see how that goes, but as others point out we are getting older and have commitments so I haven't had time to do that. I actually have no idea how to set up a server so I have to learn first. Not sure if it exists already, I tried to join a server that had Megane in the name the other day but there was an error downloading whatever mod they were running that I gave up.

    Also the idea of having a ranking and ranked servers sounds awesome, I hope it is implemented some day.
     
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  11. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I didn't offer any suggestions because most would mirror iracings way of doing stuff,as that is the most effortless experience I've had with online racing.
    I hope s397 aren't going to leaving to the customers to hire servers,they really need to supply servers with official regulated and structured series and championships.

    Ease of acces is a must and having to set everything up while hiring the servers won't in my eyes be a ticket to success.

    I don't what they can do that isn't just a carbon copy of iracings way of doing things,so keep the suggestions coming guys,maybe staff will read some of this.

    It would be helpful I think if studio 397 sent everyone a questionnaire or poll to see what the expect or want from an rf2 online perspective
     
  12. Jake Loewenstein

    Jake Loewenstein Registered

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    I hope this is a big priority!
    Rf2 is by far my fav sim, but online experience is miserable.
     
  13. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    I understand completely where you're coming from, but it's simply unreasonable to expect rFactor to be able to come any where near iRacing. I don't know the full history of iRacing, but I believe it was imagined and designed first and foremost as an online simulator. This is the reason everything is so effortless and so professionally organised. I believe it's been done so well that it doesn't just rank as the best online motor racing simulator, but also must be one of the best online experiences in any game, in any genre. But, to get where it is now has taken years of ongoing development, and just as important, has a large financial backing from its members. Just a car and a track in iRacing would pretty much pay for rFactor 2 and all its content. And people generally buy multiple cars and even more tracks, not to mention the monthly/yearly subscription revenue. Also, iRacing does charge to rent one of its servers for your own leagues.

    When I first bought AC I was an active member of iRacing and I never even attempted an online race in AC for about a year because I just knew it wouldn't be able to hold up against iRacing. I also had similarly low expectations of rFactor regarding multiplayer, although I did expect a few 24/7 servers with the popular historic cars. The point is, without a subscription model, it's too much to expect from rFactor to be comparable to iRacing, since online servers require constant funding to set up and maintain.

    Assetto Corsa gets round this buy endorsing RankService, which I believe in exchange for this endorsement it receives six free servers (although this is just a presumption). Third-party servers are common in many multiplayer games, they are usually affordable and remove the need for a subscription for online racing. I believe rFactor did have a subscription model some time ago but for whatever reason it didn't work out.

    Basically, you get what you pay for. rFactor excels in physics, AI, and its real road, and its content, while limited has been excellently made, especially Spa and Monte Carlo and various cars. But I think ranking and championships will need to be organised by the community, at least for the mean time. What rFactor can do is to make it easier to do this. It should work with third-party servers to make their job easier and fully compatible.

    Alternatively, they rent or create their own servers which we could subscribe to. For example Historic cars on historic tracks on a rotation basis with a basic ranking and scoring system, and then we just pay a small fee to join each month. But you can't really expect this service for free. Especially considering it's still not out of DX11 beta and there is still a demand for more content (plus the historic cars overhaul as mentioned in another thread). Not to mention various bug fixes like the AI pitting needlessly in wet weather and the man at Monte Carlo doesn't stop you and wave you on as he does at Spa as you leave the car park to practice.

    I simply think the lack of online races and leagues is that fewer people have rfactor than Assetto Corsa (again a presumption), the fact that the average age of rFactor players is older and have less free time, and also, but perhaps most significantly, is that AC actively encourages third-party servers, which is apparent due to the fact many servers on AC are 24/7 and are rented and organised by its members.

    All that being said, I really do hope rfactor is able to improve its multiplayer service.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  14. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Thanks for the reply,iracing isn't as good as we both make it out to be tho,the best online racing game yes,but the physics tyre model and ffb are lacking,the ui is miserable,the forum software is mediocre at best,rf2 has way more depth in the simulation department,iracing you race in hot or cold,bugs have been around for years and go unfixed,iracing is on its last legs imho,it's all about content since john Henry pulled his wallet and they have let the basic but essential sim features,that were released broken go unfixed for 3yrs plus.

    I agree we can't expect everything for free here,and I'm a bit worried that they actually made the online part free,as they will probably not be able to supply their own servers now,Tim told me a few years ago iracing started with a 20million dollar cheque from john Henry,so yeah I'm probably being rediculous expecting a similar set up to iracing here.

    But I know for a fact that iracers would not migrate if they had to setup servers and hire them as well,and I truly believe iracers should be rf2s main target,because they will stay the course,I'm rambling incoherent nonsense here,but there's going to be a huge opportunity for sim devs to poach the disgruntled iracers sooner or later,there are 100s ofnot 1000s of them looking for an online experience with depth to the simulation,and iracing are refusing to supply the depth part,cuz it wouldn't be a money earner.

    S397 have a hard challenge a head of them,as I'm sure they haven't got 20mill to work with,but I hold out hope,just look what isi were capable of creating with whole lot less money,that is still an amazing feat when you realise how good the the sim side of things are here.
     
  15. trindade

    trindade Registered

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    We just need an easy way to create a server: choosing a car/cars; a track; number of slots available; password; create; done.
     
  16. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    This is just a minor issue. This won't help populating actual empty servers.
     
  17. trindade

    trindade Registered

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    You are are probably right but it would be a good starting point IMHO.
    Another thing i dislike (and this is for those who create servers) is when i try to join a server with a track and a car I have and it starts downloading a bunch of tracks I don't want to. This feature should be always optional.
     
  18. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    The reason for one server having multiple tracks is beyond my understanding considering that the drawbacks are known since the beginnings.

    In order to bypass the issue you arise, it would be more practical (respecting current vmod structure) to be able to setup different vmods within a server, each one with track/car combo required for each race. New race, new vmod. The driver joining the server would only require the vmod running at that moment.
     
  19. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    If we're going to have 30 types of cars on 40 tracks and we don't have many players, it's hard to change. Official servers help, but if you still have many that only play leagues etc then it's still limited, though better (like ISI servers). Low numbers can only produce decent races when people all do the same thing, so while we wait for new systems etc I'd say try to join a server when you want to race - even if the numbers are very low - and you might well attract more people. Sitting there looking at low numbers and talking about it in a forum isn't helping to boost those numbers.

    This necessarily cuts down on choice. There's a reason rF1 always had plenty of people racing meganes, but only meganes. Or mostly at least.

    iRacing did one thing right - limit tracks in the early days, limit tracks for newcomers by making them pay (and qualify) for more, limit cars in the same way. People had to race together because they had little choice, and once people have paid more and are therefore committed to it they'll keep doing it. rF2 lets you play offline so punishes you less for not joining a race, plus you aren't wasting an opportunity you're paying for (subscription). I didn't much like iRacing when I tried it, but I could see that part of what I missed from rFactor (flexibility) actually helped make it a good way to jump on at almost any time of day and do some racing.

    Anyway, S397 has plans in this area so hopefully that'll help bring more people in, which then attracts yet more. It's fairly important to have numbers in a racing game.
     
  20. chrispbbb

    chrispbbb Registered

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    Hey guys,
    First time posting here, but I wanted to add my 2-cents as this topic is point of frustration for myself also.
    I got in sim racing almost a year ago. Played GPL, then rFactor1, then iRacing.
    Although iRacing is great for jumping into online races, it does not offer the types of vehicles and tracks I am interested in greatly.
    So I have played Assetto Corsa mostly for the past 6 months, but the online server offerings again are mostly focused on the same cars and tracks without much variation.
    I bought rFactor2 a month ago but am waiting until out of the dx11 beta phase before installing and using. So it is a bit discouraging to hear about online woes here also.
    I may be wrong but one of the issues I see with AC online selection is the demand-supply equation is backwards.
    Why would anyone go to the time, effort, and expensive of setting up a niche server if there is way to gauge the demand.
    If there was someway for people to express there interest in joining a certain car-track combo, which is viewable by the masses, then it would be more likely for someone to set something up. Maybe some type of continuous polling statistic on the server screen could be available.
    Instead, all I see are various forum postings looking for other interested parties to join a league or given race. However, I would suspect that most users do not lurk on the forums looking to join races.
     
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