Question about tire model to Studio-397

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lgel, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Please, I would really appreciate that these two questions be answered by Studio-397, not by anyone else.

    Does the tire model punish overheating locally across contact patch, or does the model average temps - means 150 100 50 - is identical to - 150 150 150- for the temp taken into account for tire wear?

    Does the distribution of heat across thread have an impact on grip when cornering, meaning -150 100 50 - worse than - 150 150 150-.

    Thanks to Studio-397 for answering those questions that bother me since I use RF2.

    Cheers and happy new year.
     
  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Try sending an email if you don't want a discussion. You could post the reply here.
     
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  3. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I think this is the case. Otherwise flatspots couldn´t be that accurate be simulated.
    (If I understood things correctly)
     
  4. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    It's not that I don't want to share this reply with all other users, sent also a PM, didn't receive any reply nor to this post.

    ISI or Studio-397 seems to have identical dispostion toward information, Glaznost hour has not arrived yet.

    But it is true, that I am nothing but a customer, why should they care?

    Cheers.
     
  5. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Yes IMO it is the thermal part what needs better approach.

    At the moment a tire can get up to hundreds of degrees if you keep on sliding them. Trying to simulate Rosberg celebrating his title would yield thise values. I understand that only a portion of the generated heat goes to the tire itself. Especially under heavy wearing rate where the heat is going mainly to the track and to the marbles and worn rubber in general.

    The heat dissipation of the tire itself could be a problem as well.

    I'll try to make some tests to evaluate the linearity of both components.

    The overheating of tires seems excessive to me as a general fault. For sure some vehicles make this more extreme than others.
     
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  6. gpfan

    gpfan Registered

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    Will depend of the tire type for sure, after some investigation i found a video with the tire i´m interested the most (GT3 tires) and found that RF2 tire model simulates very well temperatures across all the process when you are turning the car on track.



    Temperatures can go up to 140º rapidly and go down to 60/70º in a couple of seconds.
    People are used to simple tire model (RF1) but in real live drivers need to adapt their driving style to suite track conditions (rubber, track/turns, setup).
    A bad setup can destroy your tires on RF2 but the same car/track combo, same conditions with a good and optimized setup can do miracles on excessive temperatures and therefore excessive wear and destruction of the tire.
    Steering wheel angle in turns are also critical, simracers tend to keep steering angle to aggressively on turns as well!

    All in all RF2 tire model is very good needing some updates on thermal side, Low tire pressure and optimum tire pressure should influence more on lap times, that´s not happening right now, sometimes the car feels better on low and surrealistic tire pressure then optimum tire pressure, it should feel exactly the opposite!
     
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  7. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    140º degrees would be reasonable. I agree with that.
    Simply take a look at this values. It is Enduracers BMW M3 at las Tres Millas.
    Surface temperature peaks over 200 degrees. Inner rubber temperature up to 160 degrees.

    I will report the figures obtained with latest S397 release GT500 tomorrow after the race.
    I might get slightly lower values but I doubt I will get something qualitatively different.
    We have not used ISI/S397 content lately but we did in the past and the problem was there.

    upload_2017-1-16_20-1-2.png
     
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  8. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    As already indicated, the tires in the ES 1.0 have no CPM technologies. We work to be able to include this in future version. So the tire temps are hard to manage with the old tire model (that's allow more "drift" without "real sanction", and so more temp, and more wear).
     
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  9. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    If you need a tester when you have them ready, I'd be glad to help. We are starting tomorrow our 6 race championship with M3 so we should be able to notice changes and differences in future releases.
     
  10. Gonzo

    Gonzo Member

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    Each tire has thousands of somewhat like verts in the graphics, called nodes here.
    Each node has its own wear, temp and tons of other values. There is no "optimum temp" for a tire. For grip generation only those parts who are attached to the ground count (contact patch), okay well the temp influences the flexibility of the tire which influences the contact patch on the other hand. balancing the tire temps from the inner to the outer is a myth which exsists since f1 2000 or even longer and gets repeated over and over again. Temp is there were load and friction appear.
     
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  11. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    Balancing temps is a way to check for proper contact patch, which can be influenced by air pressure and camber. Although in real life we use both temps and tread depth. Tread depth being the most important.
     
  12. Lgel

    Lgel Registered

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    Sorry no myth at all (but not not balanced everywhere), in straight line you will have inner temps slightly higher than center and outer part being colder (due to camber), as you begin cornering, outer part of the thread of the loaded tire should rapidly catch temps of inner and center (due to dynamic weight transfer and roll), for the tire to have full traction on corner exit.

    As you say very correctly "Temp is there were load and friction appear", that means that the outer part of the thread of the loaded wheel is not having enough friction on the track. No need to put wide tires, if outer third won't work at all, nor in straight line, nor braking, nor cornering.

    If when cornering, at the exit of the curve, the harder working part of a loaded wheel, the outer, has a surface temp half of the least working part, the inner, that means that your are not using the whole thread (at best 2/3 of it), because rise of temps is consequence of the tire doing it's work (adhere to the track). In all tuning books of race cars, it means too much negative camber.

    Feel free to disagree, but then tell me why the two most recent Studio-397 cars (Nissan GT 500, and USF 2000) behave as they should with default camber?
    Modder error for those two cars?
    Wrong evolution of the previously correctly working tire model (as in ISI C6R GT2)?

    Cheers.
     
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  13. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    If I am not misstaken those two cars are the first cars which have camber correction build in the suspension settings, I am not sure tho. I have seen a few more cars now where this works pretty well. Previously rF2 has not handled camber changes as well as it does now.

    However not everything has to be an error immediately in every case. Just saying. :)
     

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