Right Power and Torque calculation?

Discussion in 'Car Modding' started by Marcel Rockenschuh, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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    As the topic says, my question is whether it is possible to set the Power @ rpm independently of the tourqe @ rpm? If so, how can I do this?

    I would like to make a Turbo engine for a privat Nissan 300ZX Mod.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Why would you? Power is torque times rpm (lets say so for now).
    However; the turbo is actually working in the engine files. That way you don't have to "disconnect" power and torque but just let the turbo work and the power goes up.

    If you would like to get some inspiration; I have a lot of turbo engines laying around here.
     
  3. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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    I would like the power and Tourqe curve for the Nissan 300ZX as good as it goes.

    [​IMG]

    Here you can see that the tourqe peak is at 3600 rpm and then falls. The whole power rises up to 6400 rpm and falls only then. You can see that the peaks of Power and Tourqe are far apart. I would like to simulate this.

    Is that possible? How can I do this on the best?

    With the help of http://meetme.bplaced.net/rF2_onlineTools/ I converted an Engine.ini from rFactor1 to rFactor2. There I also have the following code:

    Code:
    TurboInertia=1.15e-4
    TurboFriction=(0.002,2.5)
    TurboStaticFrictionWatts=100
    TurbineFlowTable=(0,0.00756)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1, 0.52)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.005, 0.53)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.01, 0.55)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.016, 0.58)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.023, 0.6)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.031, 0.63)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.04, 0.65)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.05, 0.67)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.061, 0.685)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.073, 0.697)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.086, 0.706)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.1, 0.711)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.115, 0.715)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.132, 0.718)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.15, 0.72)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.17, 0.716)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.192, 0.71)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.213, 0.695)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.238, 0.68)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.262, 0.665)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.293, 0.655)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.334, 0.64)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.387, 0.63)
    TurbineFlowEffects=(1.46, 0.618)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(1.568, 0.608)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(1.738, 0.6)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(2, 0.595)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(2.45, 0.593)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(2.9, 0.592)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.1, 0.591)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.25, 0.590)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.35, 0.589)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.4, 0.588)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.45, 0.587)
    //TurbineFlowEffects=(3.48, 0.586)
    How can I at the best simulate 388 NM @ 3600 rpm, and 300 HP @ 6400 rpm?

    I am still a beginner in rFactor modding and bring almost no knowledge.
     
  4. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    I would do the following; make the torque line as it should be (388/3600) and adjust (trial and error) the turbo.
    There is a button combination (sorry, forgot which one.....) to see the turbo pressure and power output in devmode; you can finetune from there.
     
  5. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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    Okay... Thank you first!
     
  6. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Power is torque over time.. they are directly connected to each other, you cannot disconnect them.

    I have encountered before that some manufactures stated torque and power figures that did not make any sence together, making me think that they measured each individually in their respective best conditions to get the highest possible number
     
  7. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Many, many years ago, I got my one and only look at a dyno-chart for a customer racing engine from a famous manufacturer. The results from the dyno were off from the published claims by a fair margin.
    Also, one of the long standing issues when discussing engine files is the difference from power measured directly off the engine crankshaft, or the measurements taken from spinning the drive wheels(aka on a Dynometer)
    The rear wheel measurements are often 10 to 15% lower than the totals reported from the Crank. We are left to guess where/how the power measurements were compiled.
    The Dodge Hellcat engine is famous for producing 707hp and being the most powerful production engine available in a mass market car. However, that 707 doesn't even translate to 600hp at the rear wheels. Good luck sorting all of this out.
     
  8. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Well, what do you know; typed the torque values in my tool and got automatically the right power out of it:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The thing is; there is no turbo calculated into this Excel................so; using these values, should make the engine perform like your graphic, without even a turbo.
     
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  9. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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    @Navigator, where can I get your tool (Excel File)? Is it possible? :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  10. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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  11. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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  12. Raintyre

    Raintyre Registered

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    Power = Torque x RPM / 7120

    RF2 turbo is not easy to handle. I don't recommend you to use it yet..
     
  13. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    Hmm @Raintyre i have the same formula only the 7120 is different #confused#

    P[kW] = T x n / 9549
    Here P is the power in kilowatts [kW] T torque in Newton meter [Nm] n and the rotation speed in revolutions per minute. 9549 is a dimensionless factor.

    Source is
    dr. ir. Nico Smets
    Ingenieurswetenschappen

    [​IMG]
    Vrije Universiteit Brussel

    On another note Navigator has done some great things regarding turbo engines in rF2
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  14. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    This changes depending on what units you are using, as Eddy pointed out
     
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  15. Marcel Rockenschuh

    Marcel Rockenschuh Registered

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    I have the power-torque curve correctly built (but non-turbo). In due course I will try to build it as a turbo.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks @Navigator for your Excel and everyone else!

    @Navigator, you could calculate me the correct comprossion / back tourqe? Is back tourqe and compression the same? That would be nice of you!

    Thanks again!
     
  16. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    Like Torque at any given RPM, the "Back torque" or "Compression" is something that is measured rather than synthesized with calculation. It is characteristic to a particular engine.
     
  17. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    If you implement the turbo, its going to have more power than the 300 hp now......?

    Anyway; I can take a look at the back torque, but I have to be able to drive the car. Do you have it in devmod? Are you willing to send it over?
     
  18. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

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    Would be really interesting, wich button?
     
  19. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    alt + (the key beside backspace) with thanks to dbaldi
     
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  20. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Juergen-BY and Eddy like this.

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