Two points regarding driver assists, which I cannot seem to find a conclusive answer for: hopefully someone here will know! 1. Is there anywhere in rF2 that shows us what the real world assist configuration is for any given car/class? Information such as ABS (none, low or high), TC (same), gearbox type (paddles, h-pattern etc.) and ditto across the assist range. In Assetto Corsa, there is an option for "factory assist settings" (or something similar), which just applies the correct assists at the correct level to reflect the real world car. Just taking the 370Z GT car as an isolated case: should we be using paddle shift? Is it manual clutch? rF.net says the car has ABS, but how much? There is an option in the menu to allow wheel rotation to be set by rF, presumably to match the actual cars, so surely everything else (clutch, brakes, assists etc.) should have a "default/factory" option too? Obviously, it should remain optionally user adjustable, but a simple tick box for "factory/FIA settings" would make this much more straight forward. 2. When the player selects assist options, does this then become the global setting for AI too? Using the 370Z again as an example, I just had a session at Mills and found myself a few seconds off the pace in Practice. Is this because I have ABS off, and the AI do not? I'm sure there is a setting to force the user's car set-up on the AI, but does this include assist settings too? Any advice on this would be appreciated. On a side note, I've recently purchased a G29 after my Fanatec GT3 recently became defective after many millions of track miles. I've noticed the shift LED's do not work in rF2: is this normal? I'm not too fussed about it really, was just curious
Hi! 1. Not yet, but they are working on something more realistic. For further information on cars tech look at the profile-pages here http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/rf2dl/ (I think you already know.) 2. No. AI doesn´t use any aids.
Great, thanks for the reply. 1. I guess the profile pages would be the best place for the Devs to provide these details on the cars, but as yet the information I am looking for is absent. Glad to read they are actively working on this though: it will improve the player interaction and immersion. 2. The AI never use any assists? As mentioned, the 370Z profile specifically mentions ABS, so I would assume they have ABS enabled. Are the AI assists just always off, or do they follow the Player settings?
1. Every car in rF2 uses the same TC and ABS algorithm, so even if it was car-specifically enabled or not enabled, it wouldn't be fully realistic. 2. AI uses a simplified tire model in rF2, so they are quite far from driving player car physics. Actually AI doesn't need assists as such, because an assist itself is kind of a program, the AI doesn't need a program to tell a program to limit throttle and brakes. A bit poorly explained but hopefully makes some sense.
Thanks, stonec. 1. It would be useful to have available more data per car than just TC, SC & ABS, detail such as the transmission type for instance, but thank you for clearing the point up. 2. I was not aware the AI uses a different physics model, which explains why in some cases I was locking up under braking they were not. In all honesty I don't like this separation: we should be competing within the same "rules", and having AI use a different tyre model is inconsistent. That said, I generally find the AI a pleasure to race with in rF2, so I suppose the end result is what actually matters. Your point about a program telling a program, makes sense, no problem. The issue I have here is whether or not the actual cars run with certain assists in real life. I would be making things unnecessarily difficult by disabling ABS and using manual clutch for instance, if the given car in real life actually uses ABS, TC etc.. It would make the difference in the original example I offered regarding my time at Mills in the 370Z. With ABS, I would undoubtedly be quicker, and on the next run I will be using it, given I have since learnt the actual car has ABS.
About AI braking & Physic: Tim said "AI don't have the same physics (wouldn't be possible to run them realtime with your physics), but the way they drive is pretty realistic." From this thread http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...erfect-like-AI?p=332736&highlight=#post332736
That still doesn't really provide enough detail. For example, there may be a clutch pedal, but this may only be needed for initial start. Does this mean the car should have automatic clutch then, or not? From start it would be manual, and under normal conditions (maybe even just when up-shifting), the clutch may not need be used. Further, I've noticed again with the 370Z GT3 that under set-up within the garage, TC and ABS are set at "1" which cannot be adjusted. What does "1" mean? Does it mean whatever the user settings are for assists, "1" always applies? Must the user have the assists set to low, high or off for "1" to take affect? It's not clear at the moment, and I cannot seem to find any resource that gives a proper explanation of how the assists work and what configuration of assists should apply to any given car. It would be better if ISI gave a run-down at least of the real world assist settings for each car, and how this interacts with their forced garage settings. Suggested (else real world) settings against the assist table would be all that's needed.
enough detail for what? if we are speaking only about shifting controller I think it is enough - you can clearly see paddles or sequential gearstick or H-pattern gearstick. If we are speaking how to properly shift it is not enough. But I think it is very complex topic and I doubt it worth to spend too much time on it. The reasons: - early stage of drivetrain simulation in rF2, multiple mentions at this forum that the drivetrain will be improved in the future - in many cases IRL there is not only one method how to shift with the specific drivetrain and drivers use different methods depending on their skill and other conditions, most obvious thing is (un)using the clutch. you know you can shift without clutch in your passenger car with H pattern gearbox, do you? I can suggest you to use WGL circle in trackmap plugin. I would say just try to avoid "grip pulses" (or momentary lock ups) on driven tires during your upshifts and downshifts. When it occurs start to suppress it using your throttle pedal - lift off for smoothing the upshift and blip during downshifting. If it is not enough then add the clutch pedal to the process of shifting. And try profiles of ISI original vehicles, for example: http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/howston-dissenter/ http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/nissan-gt-r-gt1/ http://rfactor.net/web/rf2/cars/chevrolet-corvette-c6-r/ there can be useful informations for shifting technique I have a sympathy for pursuing the realism but in many areas the complexity is a problem. For example - do you have a clutch paddle on your steering wheel to properly simulate clutch handling in modern F1 car? I am sorry I can not help you more.
The ABS and TC setting in garage (which you cant adjust) are a placeholder/preparation for a new sort of providing these aids to the car, that they eventually wanted to release (at some point). As it is now, you have to use the normal driving-aids (F8, F9 in this case) to enable them! The existence of a "1" at these points in the garage-menu tells you that this car has it in real life. "1" is the lowest setting.
Sorry for false-information if true (don´t know actually as I´m not driving many different cars these days)!
All assists work the same way for every car, so TC on a historic car is exactly the same algorithm as TC for a modern car. It's probably very simple, something like TC High = accept no wheelspin, TC Low = accept 5% wheelspin, so there isn't much intelligence to it, in any case much less intelligence than the TC system of a modern real car. I don't recommend running any car with aids on in rF2 unless it's for learning.
Mhhh, I think that´s not entirely truth stonec. Remember the Camaro GT3´s ability to setup TC in car-settings/upgrades menu? (even not mentioned here in this thread yet) The settings in the camaro will be very different to TC-settings in let´s say the historic F3, as you have some possibilities in the .hdv-file with it. So, if modder want´s it, he can create very different settings for all cars.
Hm you are correct indeed, latest ISI Camaro has specified TractionControlGrip HDV override in the upgrades. It's the first mod in rF/rF2 I've seen with this property. It's still the same TC algorithm I guess, but now you can at least tune the aggression to make the aid more useful. Nice find.
You can do pretty much the same with ABS, we would just need more than 3 steps. (up to 12) please EDIT: I am aware it doesn't work the way it works IRL but at the end with a lot of fine tuning you can still get very good results with it.
