2 years Before playing rf2 . I drove Go kart real life. result was: Driving the wrong line. When the car began to oversteer that I don't know what it is to be effective .Result is Go kart spin everytime when it start to oversteer. Can't full throttle long straight line because of bad braking technic . If Apply brake pedal fully, then at the end of straight line the car will unstable and feel to spin. I don't know about threadhold breaking. Cornering speeds are very slow. If the car is too fast to go in turn it will out of track. Exit corner very slowly. If I apply throttle the car will spin .I don't know why. I wanted to try Drift similar on youtube but I do not know How to do like that. =============================================== After training rf2 mainly with skip baber -> BT20 -> NSX play about two years. And many many advise from you in this forum Before I drive real life I training Go kart jr. in rf2. Now It's Time to drive Real life Go kart 220cc. four stroke engine. The result of training with rf2 then drive Go kart real life is. - Don't fear to Full throttle compared to the event before practice rf2. - Apply threshold braking method from rf2. Feel comfort to do like in rf2. - Can cornering at higher speeds than ever before because of knowing the speed that not produce understeer learn from rf2. And I can use trail braking that practice from rf2. - Apply throttle out of corners with confidence that I can control the oversteer that may be happen. In the last 3 lap, try to drift like in rf2. (Tuesday Afternoon not weekend so I'm only one on the track) The result is unbelievable that go kart real life easier to Drift compare to rf2 . Rf2 I must counter steer very quick. But in real life, I feel that I had a bit more time to counter steer. I feel car recovery from oversteer slower than in rf2 that make me to easy to manage than rf2. May be Go kart real life 220cc 4-stroke engine has less power ? I don't know. I can apply the same method from rf2 to drift in real life. I have just power-oversteer when exit turn. 2 years before rf2 I don't think I can do like these !! My dream come true! Motorsport is very expensive. Go kart 8 min cost equal food 3-4 days!!! rF2 save my money a lot . and rFactor2 help me to improve driving skill a lot too
Yes, rF2 had exactly the same effect on me to.. when i went to goKart for the first time in my life like a year ago, the guy didnt believe i have never ever raced anything and despite my significant weight i was doing very respectable times. rF2 gives you very good base to build on
+1 Informative, thanks for that! I was recently wondering to what extent RF2 could be used to train real-world karting techniques: an acquaintance is grooming his 11-year old son for F1 via karting, and the boy's mother is concerned for his safety. I was going to suggest an OSW rig + triple screen + RF2 to his father as a serious training device that could evolve with the boy's skill and engine power. As I understand it they are doing a sponsorship deal and traveling all over Europe for races, so I think he's already at a serious competitive level (I don't know anything about the sport...). Would you consider such a system a useful skill-builder at potentially world-class karting levels?
I would say definetly but only provided hes gonna have a plenty of real experience too. One thing that no sim can give you is the feel of G-forces which is one of the most important feels when driving anything. On Karts you very much feel when you oversteer because you are sitting close to the real axle. Also during the cornering nailing the slip angle is best achived by feel. So rF2 gives you great base, but there is still plenty to build after that.
Thanks MikeCZ...interesting points. I will ask both the racer and his father their opinion on simulation, I suspect they would both be very interested but had always assumed such systems are fabulously expensive.
Depends on what rig are you looking for, from what you described a rought estimation would be (in pounds) 2000 for OSW, 2000 For the screens, 2000 for the PC, than its the seat you want to use, say youd go for a fixed GT omega 400. WIth a reserve for other expenses like pedals, headphones/speakrs. You would look for about 10 grand for Really high-end rig that would be able to immerse you really well. I personally race on single screen with T500, the values when purchased would be about 2500 but its nothing you would want to train on if you want to go pro
I would not recommend gt omega. It's not bad for what you pay but it has a little too much flex imo. And that's coming from just a t500 user, imagine the flex that would come with a 20Nm OSW wheel. The pedal plate was not well designed for load cells I think as I found myself limited in how low I could set its sensitivity. I would liked to have been able to set it a good deal lower in sensitivity but the pedal plate and chair would begin to flex considerably, affecting the accuracy and consistency under braking.
Yep, I had a similar figure in mind...and I doubt a pro/semi-pro would flinch at an €8-10k price tag, especially if their sponsor is willing to participate in the cost. I'd imagine the total cost of a single race weekend runs into thousands rather than hundreds so such a sim is probably a relatively minor cost. Those (very nice) commercial D-box motion sims are €40k-50k+ which is a hefty investment for anyone. Given what you said about oversteer it got me wondering if the commercial D-box designs have the pivot too far forward to give the correct motion cues to simulate a kart's slip....not sure I have a good understanding of where the yaw pivot is in an oversteer situation, and how this differs between karts and cars.
I don't think a motion rig or a OSW wheel are mandatory in order to squeeze out the potential of a kid, and to train him. Maybe the wheel is the exception, so he can train his body to improve strenght and resistance. Unless he can train in the exact kind of kart he will actually race in, I would not bother too much with motion rigs, apart that no motion rig can recreate the range of movemento or the forces involved, but just give a hint of them, considering that he will have chances to train or real tracks too, those will be the occasion to learn to understand those things. The thing that the simulator will give best, is probably to learn to be consistent, to make less mistakes, and to develop a racing mindset, that will help keeping him focused under stress. I would not say that even triple monitors are mandatory as in few months there will be several VR systems avaiable, and for the reduced dimensions of a karting track I think they will perform perfectly.. even if ISI won't support them from day 1, I think during this year it will come.
I was thinking the ideal solution would be use a real kart frame and seat, bolt the OSW to the kart frame, and bolt in some Heusinkveld pedals...
Yea motion rig is over excessive and i personally dont have the experience but i dont think they deliver very accurate results. the OSW i would altho really appeal on, or AccuForce wheel, simply direct drive. The forces in the wheel are mega important. From personal experience what rF2 helped me the best with is my reactions, instant countersteer for oversteers but not too much so you dont snap into oversteer the other way. It also thought me LOADS about weight transfer..absolutelly essential for racing.. you want to be leaning on that outter front as much as possible before the rear snaps out. Also the quick corners, where you just give it a very quick lift off right when you turn in to get the weight on that outter front.. thats all coming from rF2 for me. I noticed that i also had the reflex of immidiately going slighly off the brakes if i locked the rears.. just like a reflex more than a reaction.. thanks to rF2.. this sorta things the sim is amazing for
Guy didn't believe me too. 1 Mar 2016 I drove Go kart 2 places. 1st 220 cc. 4-stoke engine indoor track. 2nd 270 cc. 4-stoke engine outdoor track. Let me show you Lap times : Best lap time at indoor track. Joe London 26.8 fullsus 30.924 <== Me Ang wis 42.576 Kenny 43.237 Yuonne 45.951 I raced with only Joe London. Other person finished race before me to walk in. After end of race staff ask me "This is your first time with this track really" He surprise about my lap time. I said "Yes. I don't drive go kart for 2 year ago. But I play sim rf2 almost everyday" You can see real life Alien laptime "Joe London". Staff told me He play almost everyday. But another driver is the normally like me that drive this track first time. I think the big difference time between me and other normally driver is: 1) Loss control: Staff told me last night they change new track layout so track surface not completely clean. Track less grip and easy to spin. 2) Fear factor: Very narrow indoor track and if you loss control you will hit the wall or pole at every turn. They fear to get to injure. If you ask me why I don't fear. No First few lap My fear factor =100% see my First few lap time 39->35 sec. After First few lap pass when I start to loss control I can manage that just like in rf2 !!! So my fear factor reduce to may be 20%. 3) I sure 100% other driver don't training with sim before.
Although it probably doesn't make financial sense unless the kart is surplus/junk. With a €150-200 in 8020 aluminium extrusion and a few hours work you could achieve the same. Now if you could contrive some quick-release mechanisms to swap out the real wheel for the OSW and likewise the pedal assemblies, that WOULD be interesting. I.e. the same car is used for real racing and sim racing...if the conversion could be done in under 10min, it might be a solution. But I'm guessing things like the tension in the throttle/brake cables must be carefully adjusted so it would be pretty complex.
Last year i was in Crete (Greece) on holiday with the whole family. My sons wanted to go karting so we went to a outdoor go kart track. My oldest son (22) said well dad are you sure because we gonna own you big time. Laps were about 50 seconds in time and i managed to lap the oldest, who also was quickest of the 3 sons i have, 3 times in a 20 min stint. Afterwards they said well dad it must be because you rFactor 2 every day.......i walked to the hotel proud as can be that night
Ya that's awesome. Sims definitely help you stary thinking about what you're doing at very minute amounts with your control inputs. They help you become much more conciously aware of what you're doing. Of course, they also teach about weight transfer, grip, understeer/oversteer, quick reactions, etc. I agree with what you say about oversteer - totally; unfortunately that's just the way it is and you have to drive the sim the way it's physics require (most notably during oversteer moments). By the way, what's your favorite Kart track in RF2 (mod or stock content)? Actually, name a few if you don't mind I really like the Quebec tracks - all the layouts (well, the Bridge layout not as much) - with the Jr Karts as-well as the track in my RF2 kart youtube video (can't remember the name) with the F1 karts. It's honestly difficult choosing because most of the kart tracks are very good in my opinion. The ISI Mountain track ones are awesome - they all are. I really want to try ISI's Sardian heights short/Jr. and long/F1; I think those would be great combos, especially the short/Jr. combo. Feel free to add me on Steam (same username as here). That goes for everyone. Cheers!
This is my first post, but just had to share that I can literally count on one hand how many times I've been in a kart over the last ten years but every time I go I do pretty well. The last time I went I got into a great battle with a guy and his son and afterward the guy approached me and was very excited about the battle and mentioned that he had never seen me before at the karting center so was asking if I was new to the area because he was unable to catch me and he and his son were regulars (can't remember if they were in a league or not) but when I told him I was just there for the birthday party he was very skeptical so I had to explain that I did a bit of sim racing and of course then I had to explain what sim racing was, etc. etc. Without sim racing, I'd have no idea what I was doing.
