Guys, I'm KILLING myself on neutralizing corner exit oversteer

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Voodoo Pizzaman, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    Is that a Typo? Default sensitivity is 100%.
     
  2. Voodoo Pizzaman

    Voodoo Pizzaman Registered

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    Probably because I'm an engineer and there's always a more efficient solution than the one currently in place. I'm obsessive.

    See above, haha.
     
  3. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    It's an issue with the rf2 tire model. It seems that with all the cars, moreso the open wheel cars, the rear horizontal slip increases exponentially with the increase in rear lateral slip, and I don't think that's all too accurate. I have this opinion by comparing the handling of the rf2 karts with real life karts, which I have driven and am very fast. On the real kart I don't get NEAR the amount of extreme snapping loose on throttle that I get in the sim. Not even close! For one thing I can push the throttle and keep turning without having to react like a freaking alien to correct the INSANE amount of oversteer on throttle. So whatever bug is in the rf2 tire model, it is multiplied by 10x with the karts because of there very light weight and extreme agility.

    The only OW car I don't have this issue with is the ASR 90s F1 cars, they drive like a charm. But like Paul Loatman has said, this was probably accomplished by using false tire data to correct the problem. Although I have loved 88-97 style F1 cars since GTR2 days. They really seem to fit my all-or-nothing driving style.

    Anyway, I guess all you can really do is wait for a fix (if we ever get one, seems like things get worse with every build lately).

    The way around it for now is to just be extremely careful on the throttle until you are completely straight, and then mash it. Maybe even try negative throttle sensitivity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2015
  4. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Well I have the exact opposite effect lol. If I drift into corners with that same car and throttle after apex I literally end up doing a 360 [emoji16]

    I wonder if there can be a difference in systems (like different processor) that can make the physics engine run differently? Surely not, but it's indeed possible, I've witnessed similar things.

    Or maybe I just suck lol.
     
  5. qusimano

    qusimano Registered

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    I love the Fr 3.5:cool:I do not have a solution to the problem, but i try to put some input into the discussion. I tried the posted setup (thx) in Catalunya, and it's good, but more or less, i suffer oversteer in T7 , like with my setup. It's a corner similar to T4 in malaysia (where i suffer the same problem). The car have to manage high weight transfer, due to height difference beetween entry and exit.Tried different things like soften the car and lower the camber in order to have more contact patch,even transfer some weight to the front, but the problem is not solved.The front loose grip and the outer rear spin heavily. Is this a problem of differential? I tend to lower the power diff, in order to have an easy management on the exit, and some higher value on coast for better braking, until undesteer become prominent Maybe this is my error? what is the cons having low value on power diff?. My problem it's very specific to corners with elevation changes i think.
     
  6. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Correct. But asphalt is very far from smooth. Plenty of gaps for air molecules to gather, even with slicks. Totally different set of rules.

    My main point is, rf2 karts snap loose like crazy under throttle, and real karts don't do that. Therefore, something is obviously wrong. I mean it's EXTREMELY over the top. Touch the throttle at all and you are spinning. Or I am at least.
     
  7. Guineapiggy

    Guineapiggy Registered

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    Have to agree. rF2 cars are just way too ready to snap away compared to other sims, the FR3.5 is just the poster child for this.
     
  8. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    But you just used the granite analogy to explain why it should be snappy with more grip.

    Anyway, the FR2014 and FISI are two cars that I just can't go fast in because they are so darn snappy. Maybe it's my driving style.
     
  9. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Omg. is it way too snappy, or can you do crazy drifts and not spin? Or is it both and you're just a driving God? Lol
     
  10. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Aha. It's the. Gaining traction suddenly that's not happening for me. Guess I'm not doing it right then.
     
  11. aguy0523

    aguy0523 Registered

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    There's no fast bump/rebound settings so bumpy exits are troublesome. Right before you go over the crest of the bump, apply a little throttle while simultaneously counter steering. You have to anticipate it before it happens and you can catch the slide while accelerating/pulsing the throttle. This is sort of what Paul is talking about. The car can maintain a manageable slide, it just takes practice and really quick reflexes. The setup only takes you so far. Some bumps... you simply just have to take it easy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2015
  12. Voodoo Pizzaman

    Voodoo Pizzaman Registered

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    Thanks for continuing input guys. Updates: I've sort of had a back-to-basics moment with Formula 2s, and while I started off with the problem that got this whole thread started, I went through a normal setup progression using advice here (slightly stiffer rear spring rates, not-so-drastically softened rear bump damping, added rear camber, and a slight increase in front downforce) and I've turned the car into a really hot drive. Thing is though, there's still a slight perceptible oversteer, but with my throttle sensitivity adjustments, it's all been manageable to the point that I'm steering with my throttle as much as with my wheel. In a word, perfect. Couldn't have done it without you all. Just want to say thanks.

    But since this HAS been such an insightful thread, please do continue the discussion on handling because it seems so many like me have wondered about it. I think it would benefit everyone.
     
  13. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly Registered

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    Glad to hear you have found some improvement.
    I just then got a chance to drive your set up and my setup back to back.
    (Edit: my set was from april 2014 for V 1.1 of the car. I just downloaded V1.2 it still seems ok)
    I did it at Spa as I wanted to drive on Med aero package to reduce aero influence. 15/33.

    What I found was that your set was so stiff in the front that it was hard to get to the apex.
    The result was that too much steering lock was needed in the initial phase of the corner, this resulted in a snap oversteer as soon as things hooked up later in the corner. So entry understeer/exit oversteer.
    So IMO a suspension balance issue more than another. The higher diff settings were just making it more of a struggle in the entry phase and trying to overcome with diff this balance issue.
    Other observations:
    Steering lock poss a bit fast depending on your in-game steering degrees. I had 18.5 but now use about 16.5, you had 20.5. My wheel in-game is set at 480 deg.
    Front dampers very very high
    Front ride height can come down too which will increase grip
    Rear springs higher than mine
    Front ARB very high (entry understeer)
    Diff pre-load lower than what I have.
    Camber. IMO too high at front, loo low(edit high) at rear.
    Caster mine much greater. I was able to feel the front slip angle to prevent over turning the wheel at entry and mid corner.

    When we wrote the guide Kuba Brzezinski (FSR WC Race Winner) contributed a key point. " solve the issues at turn entry before trying to solve mid corner or exit issues"
    Personally I think its one of those ones. With a much stronger turn in and feel of the front end you will have a much lower steered angle at mid corner and a smoother more manageable transition to throttle and rear loading.
    (edit#2 the motec data supports this in car feel. Greater steered angle in your set up, more front tyre temp and and less lateral; G.)
    If you go for drive at Spa select Med aero package.
    Hope this helps


    my spa set is here
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/q13fn3tdk4dbii3/FR3514SPARACE.svm?dl=0

    Silverstone set here, it was done a few weeks later and probably slightly better. High aero pack.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m1zl5iozsqwe7/FR35Silverstone5RACE.svm?dl=0

    (Final edit I hope) One setting that seems to sometimes randomly re-set or not transfer is the roll centre setting. It made a big difference for me at Silverstone hving it at 7I. Default is 3E I think.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2015

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