Guys, I'm KILLING myself on neutralizing corner exit oversteer

Oh that's your problem. That car is a nightmare to drive. Lol. I know what you mean now. The ever so slightest throttle input on that car and the rear loses it and, unfortunately, there are no fast bump/rebound settings or 3rd spring for the rear, so any bumps on the road unsettle the car.

Rear roll center adjustment can help but I forget what I did, it was a while ago. I had power diff up to 80% and preload at minimum... I think, maybe max. Play with it to see what works.

It's the car, you really have to be extremely gentle with throttle. When you come out of the corner straighten the wheels earlier than you think you have to while you apply some throttle to lessen the slide.

 

I am, both setup-wise and rF2 settings-wise. Haven't gotten to rear camber yet.

Yeah I agree with that assessment. I'll see what I can do to find the sweet spot.

Some adjustments I've made that I've felt are going the right direction:
Rear toe increased slightly
Caster decreased
Locked diff (100% power)
Stiffening rear springs slightly while maintaining softer bump damp in the rear
Weight distribution max to the front

Another thing I've noticed through the course of this exercise, I've been experiencing snap oversteer in the cut zone, under zero throttle, purely by making the turn in. Thought it might be a weight distribution issue, which is why I moved it all to the front, but that hasn't changed anything. This one genuinely confused me, because it's plainly a lateral weight transfer issue - too soft on ARB?

 

The FR3.5 is, for whatever reason, possessed by a lesser demon of undrivability. Honestly, my advice would be to compromise your entry to work on the exit stability. It's old advice but it's still good, you can make false gains on a corner entry that you pay for all the way down the next straight/corner sequence.

 

It's been a while so I took it out for a spin around Mid-Ohio without the chicane. I left settings on default except:

radiator = 2
spring rate = 1000lbs
rear ARB = minimum
rear toe in = .5mm
front toe out = 1.4mm
caster = 9.6 deg
front camber 2.6 deg
rear camber = 1.9 deg
rear tire pressure = minimum
brake bias = 56:44
pedal force = 88kg
fuel = 82L

everything else I left alone.

On the 7th lap I timed= 1:11.086. More than likely the car can go faster with some more adjustments and more laps.
No DRS activation
TC aid on low.
Temperature = 30C

It's possible to go fast, but it takes a lot steering input and you have to overcome a mental barrier in corner entry. The car can really brake late and carry a lot of apex speed, more than you think it can. Turn 9 before Thunder Valley is where a lot of time can be made but takes practice. I'm making rapid left and right steering inputs while pulsing the throttle to barely slide over the crest of the hill. Come in wide, brake, turn hard while reducing the brake, then steering and throttle play, over the crest, hard throttle and straighten the wheels quickly. The first corner can almost be taken flat out. Right before the bridge just tap the brake, down 1 gear, hard turn to yellow curb and then full throttle coming out.

It's an arm workout honestly to drive it. I'm really snapping my arms left and right a lot, very quickly to keep the car stable. From the outside it may look smooth on replay, but I'm wrestling that wheel and working the brake/throttle with both feet.

 

Well, like Jackie Stewart says, the exit is far more important than the entry.

 

So basically you are trying to run a spool with a 600hp engine on the rear.
This could impair all the rest of the setup.
If I were you I would restart the entire process.
Page 31 of david o'reilly rF2 advanced car setup guide.

 

I would like to to drive the set up you have created.
Tell us what track too ?
and since its the FR 3.5 what aero pack.

So post it please
and post a link to the Motec file (log).
With the set, and the motec file we can do it!!!!!

After a a couple of seasons in FR 35. I reckon its solve-able.

 

I know you can drive fast Voodoo, and for sure you're no newbe in simracing. Al set up advice given here about increasing power dif setting and harden the rear suspension are the way i would go also. Weight distribution i would have gone for bringing it to the back of the car when looking for more grip which you obviously searching for.
But basic driving technique, and i know you know this: always keep a little throttle while cornering (same as with the skippy's) and after apex just squeeze the power in softly.
Tried taking the corner in a higher gear?

The Formula Renault 3.5 is a hard car to master imho but it's so much fun when you did.
And remember what has been said when the 2014 car came out for rF2:

Acceleration
The car will be tricky to accelerate at low speeds, with wheelspin possible in 1st, 2nd and even 3rd gear, so exercise restraint at low speed. This is due to the decreased downforce the car is producing at lower speeds.

 

If you are still running gear with potentiometers, short travel and low res, there are options in the controller.json like "analog filter" and all sensitivities.
And check to see if they are skippy or being randomly activated due to dirt, etc, with a pedal overlay app or in Motec.
Also you can tweak the directinput/xinput sensitivities too.
Try it and see if you like it - people are extremely against pedal sensitivity though...

In the game, check to see if the Realroad profile you are using has marbles from the AI.
It could be better to put rubber on the track with only one car and x15. The AI can make the track end up dirty like the end of a race.
And also theres the fact about temps there are really sensitive in RF2 and now on other newer games also. If you make a mistake, the tyres will only work again after some time.

In the setup, for the FISI for example, I use diff lock 15/10/13/10 from top to bottom.
The "controversy" about this setting you can read about it in a guide called Racer_Alex_Advanced_F1_SetupGuide.pdf on the web.

 

Here's the setup if you want to save it as an .svm file...make sure to change the VEH path to your personal one:

Code:

VehicleClassSetting="_unknown_base_vehicle_class_"
UpgradeSetting=(0,0,0,0)
//VEH=C:\Users\Konrad\Documents\rFactor2\Installed\Vehicles\ISI_FormulaRenault35_2014\1.2\FR35_2014_20.VEH
//UpgradeClass=FR3.5_2014
//Downforce Package=0
//Display Units - Toe Angles=0
//Display Units - Front Anti-roll Bar=0
//Note: settings commented out if using the default

[GENERAL]
Notes="Aero Balance: 1 click front wing per 1 click rear wing."
Symmetric=1
//CGHeightSetting=0//28.5 cm
//CGRightSetting=1//50.0:50.0
//CGRearSetting=2//43.3:56.7
//WedgeSetting=0//0.00 turns
//FrontTireCompoundSetting=0//Dry RST3.5
//RearTireCompoundSetting=0//Dry RST3.5
FuelSetting=18//25L (11laps)
//NumPitstopsSetting=1//1
//Pitstop1Setting=0//+0L (0laps)
//Pitstop2Setting=0//N/A
//Pitstop3Setting=0//N/A

[LEFTFENDER]
//FenderFlareSetting=0//1

[RIGHTFENDER]
//FenderFlareSetting=0//1

[FRONTWING]
FWSetting=15//15°

[REARWING]
RWSetting=0//53°

[BODYAERO]
//RadiatorSetting=2//3
//BrakeDuctSetting=2//20% closed

[SUSPENSION]
//FrontWheelTrackSetting=0//159.7 cm
//RearWheelTrackSetting=0//150.7 cm
//FrontAntiSwaySetting=10//431kg/mm
//RearAntiSwaySetting=8//20x2.25 P4 21kg/mm
//FrontToeInSetting=8//20’ OUT
//FrontToeOffsetSetting=0//0.00 deg
//RearToeInSetting=5//10’ IN
//RearToeOffsetSetting=0//0.00 deg
//LeftCasterSetting=4//7.6 deg
//RightCasterSetting=4//7.6 deg
//LeftTrackBarSetting=0//0.0 cm
//RightTrackBarSetting=0//0.0 cm
//Front3rdPackerSetting=7//12 mm
Front3rdSpringSetting=1//1100 lb/in
//Front3rdSlowBumpSetting=11//12932 N/m/s
//Front3rdFastBumpSetting=11//830 N/m/s
Front3rdSlowReboundSetting=1//2430 N/m/s
Front3rdFastReboundSetting=1//2013 N/m/s
//Rear3rdPackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
//Rear3rdSpringSetting=0//Detached
//Rear3rdSlowBumpSetting=0//0 N/m/s
//Rear3rdFastBumpSetting=0//0 N/m/s
//Rear3rdSlowReboundSetting=0//0 N/m/s
//Rear3rdFastReboundSetting=0//0 N/m/s
//ChassisAdj00Setting=7//3-E
//ChassisAdj01Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj02Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj03Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj04Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj05Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj06Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj07Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj08Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj09Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj10Setting=0//1
//ChassisAdj11Setting=0//1

[CONTROLS]
//SteerLockSetting=12//20.5 deg
//RearBrakeSetting=26//55.0:45.0
//BrakePressureSetting=26//100 kgf
//HandfrontbrakePressSetting=0//0%
//HandbrakePressSetting=0//0%

[ENGINE]
//RevLimitSetting=0//9,000
//EngineBoostSetting=0//1
//EngineBrakingMapSetting=1//1

[DRIVELINE]
//FinalDriveSetting=0//10/35 (bevel 19/19)
//ReverseSetting=0//14/16/38
Gear1Setting=0//12/34 (9.917)
Gear2Setting=4//16/33 (7.219)
Gear3Setting=8//17/29 (5.971)
Gear4Setting=12//21/30 (5.000)
Gear5Setting=17//22/27 (4.295)
Gear6Setting=20//23/26 (3.957)
//RatioSetSetting=0//N/A
//DiffPumpSetting=0//0%
//DiffPowerSetting=13//20°/4F 71.6%
DiffCoastSetting=7//60°/6F 23.3%
//DiffPreloadSetting=2//0.4 mm
//RearSplitSetting=0// 

[FRONTLEFT]
//CamberSetting=10//-3.5 deg
//PressureSetting=30//120 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
//SpringSetting=0//Detached
//SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
//RideHeightSetting=18//36 mm
//SlowBumpSetting=0//2800 N/m/s
//FastBumpSetting=0//2900 N/m/s
//SlowReboundSetting=0//2800 N/m/s
//FastReboundSetting=0//2900 N/m/s
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//28 mm
//BrakePadSetting=1//2

[FRONTRIGHT]
//CamberSetting=10//-3.5 deg
//PressureSetting=30//120 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
//SpringSetting=0//Detached
//SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
//RideHeightSetting=18//36 mm
//SlowBumpSetting=0//2800 N/m/s
//FastBumpSetting=0//2900 N/m/s
//SlowReboundSetting=0//2800 N/m/s
//FastReboundSetting=0//2900 N/m/s
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//28 mm
//BrakePadSetting=1//2

[REARLEFT]
//CamberSetting=10//-2.0 deg
//PressureSetting=30//120 kPa
//PackerSetting=10//15 mm
SpringSetting=4//1400 lb/in
//SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
//RideHeightSetting=12//42 mm
SlowBumpSetting=2//4190 N/m/s
FastBumpSetting=2//5420 N/m/s
SlowReboundSetting=14//16080 N/m/s
FastReboundSetting=14//5710 N/m/s
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//28 mm
//BrakePadSetting=1//2

[REARRIGHT]
//CamberSetting=10//-2.0 deg
//PressureSetting=30//120 kPa
//PackerSetting=10//15 mm
SpringSetting=4//1400 lb/in
//SpringRubberSetting=0//Detached
//RideHeightSetting=12//42 mm
SlowBumpSetting=2//4190 N/m/s
FastBumpSetting=2//5420 N/m/s
SlowReboundSetting=14//16080 N/m/s
FastReboundSetting=14//5710 N/m/s
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//28 mm
//BrakePadSetting=1//2

[BASIC]
Downforce=0.500000
Balance=0.500000
Ride=0.500000
Gearing=0.500000
Custom=1

I'm going to have to run a new Motec file so I'll post that later.

Yeah, throttle feathering is second nature to me. The setup I posted above has pretty significantly reduced downforce, so reading that kind of makes me suspect that's what I did wrong here.

Okay, so I have a lot to learn about telemetry...starting with the json file.

 

I'll try the setup on Silverstone, curious!

edit:
Hmm, that setup doesn't drive half bad! I do experience quite some understeer mid corner and in the exits, but I guess that is due to this exercise.
I choose Silverstone for a reason, there is a good mix between sorts of turns here. I also have a couple of turns where, when I'm pushing, will involve
slight oversteer to help point the car.

Such a moment is the penultimate corner, which I highlighted (red dot on the track layout) in this image:

A slight correction and balancing the throttle is enough to neutralize the balance change and can smoothly go on to
make the final turn.

Here is the MOTEC log file for you to compare with, these are not my best laps for sure, but maybe you can use it to your benefit
http://www.mediafire.com/download/b..._-_13-49-31_-_Silverstone_--_GT_Layout_-_T.ld

I'm also a bit curious, do you feel the slides coming before they snap on you or do you simply have no time to react and they are gone?

 

I would prefer that you upload the actual svm and give me a link to download it. I am not confident that text will save as an svm and I dont want to manually do what is already done.

 

It varies, occasionally it's sensible before it happens, and other times it's instant.

Well, it's encouraging to know I can build a setup that's decent. You're going to feel a lot of understeer with it though, because I'm trying to figure out this problem.

Here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6VyHQDs7EGNUE1QaUo0VUF0Q1E/view?usp=sharing

EDIT:

I'm not able to operate Motec right now for some reason...getting the error sound while trying to log data.

 

Check the folder you are writing to exists and that its not write protected

 

If you lost traction at the 4/5th of the corner, means u have used more traction available for the 1/5th, the 2/5th, and the 3/5th of the corner.

I always think that traction should be spread equally or balanced thru out a corner. Say 40% turn in and 60% exit. In your case i think uve used 100% of the traction 4/5th of the corner while u shud be using 80%

 

....or over analization

 

Can't, I was an idiot and upgraded to Windows 10 which removes my ability to control folder permissions and privileges even though I'm clearly the system administrator.

Side note: DO NOT UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 10

I'm not sure I agree, because I don't think 'traction' as a concept is a quantity you can run out of.

 

I don't agree DD, this is a very interesting thread and finally no AC/PC or whatever sim is better/worse or ISI should do this or that thread.

 

Well yes, that's correct. I merely meant that 'Having a lot of traction in the first part of the corner means I'll have none at the end' as a concept is inaccurate, because theoretically, if you're masterful at car setups, you could easily give yourself tons of grip and traction through the entirety of the corner.

To the rest of your point, what my problem seems to be, as its becoming clearer throughout this exercise, is that I'm having massive slip angles under ~50-60% throttle application while straightening out of a corner. (If I could get Motec to log without Windows 10 ruining everything, you would be able to see my throttle/steer angles for proof). Like you said, that doesn't make any sense.

I've been playing with pump and preload now, and I'm noticing slight improvements. I'm just so positive it's something to do with the diff/power application to the rear wheels, because every suspension adjustment I'm making is increasing understeer EXCEPT for the area where I need it most.

 

Voodoo, what kind of lap times are you getting with that setup at Silverstone. I've never used MOTEC before and wondering if it's worth the effort to go that route to reduce lap times. My fastest with the F3.5 at Silver was 1:44.1 with 1200lb rear springs, 2 clicks up from minimum with sway bar and ~75% power diff. Is Motec worth it?

Have you tried maxing out Caster to help with the understeer.