hmm, not sure that's quite right. See if this clarifies things for your or not... Ok, we have 3 variables at play that determine the resultant ffb output of our wheels. 1) Car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque" - It's value represents the maximum virtual steering wheel torque that is to correspond with maximum/100% ffb output. So it may be set by the car mod creator to 10Nm for one car and 30Nm for another. Note that maximum/100% ffb output will result in different true peak torque outputs depending on your specific ffb wheel (e.g. peak torque possible for a T500 = 5.5Nm, AF = 13Nm, bodnar = 16Nm, etc) and what you've set your wheel specific profilers "overall effects strength" value to (e.g. if set to 100% then for bodnar peak torque possible = 16Nm, if 50% then = 8Nm, etc). If i recall correctly, the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque" cannot be changed from what the car mod creator has set it to. But there is also no need to change it to configure the ffb as desired because the following 2 variables allow us to do that. 2) "Steering Torque Capability" (aka "STC") - The value that is supposed to represent the maximum steering torque output of our specific ffb wheel motors (that is after also accounting for any changes to the "overall effects strength" of your wheel in the specific wheel profiler that can change the peak torque possible from your ffb wheel motor). When the STC value is less than the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque", the Nominal Max Steering Torque value is used to correspond with maximum/100% ffb output. But when it is greater than it, the STC value is used instead of the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque" for that session only (i.e. it does not overwrite the car mods car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque" value permanently). Side-note: The default value is set to 2.5Nm because 99% of ffb wheel users do not have ffb wheels that exceed any of the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque" values with the lowest starting starting at around ~10Nm. So for 99% of users, the default 2.5Nm STC means they will have use the car-sepcific nominal max steering torque value to correspond with 100% ffb output. 3) Car-specific FFB Mutli(plier) - This setting allows us to manipulate the scaling of the maximum/range of virtual steering wheel torque to the ffb output ingame (unlike the STC value which must be done in the controller.json file and an rf2 restart each time it's changed). Simply put, decreasing the FFB multiplier has the equivalent effect of raising the maximum virtual steering wheel torque value that corresponds with 100% ffb output and increasing it does the opposite. So if FFB Multi = 1.00 and maximum virtual steering wheel torque equaled 20Nm (as determined by either the STC or Nominal Max value, whichever is highest), then increasing the FFB Multi = 2.00 will halve the effective maximum virtual steering torque to 10Nm. FFB Multi = 0.50 would double the effective maximum virtual steering wheel torque to 40Nm, etc. Lastly, you do not have to set the STC value to max what your ffb wheel is capable of. You can if you want to leave it default and just play with the ffb multiplier to set it to what feels good to you. If however you want to achieve 1:1 virtual to real steering wheel torque output matching, then setting the correct STC value for your ffb wheel is want you want. You'll also want to leave the ingame car-sepcific ffb multiplier to the default 1.00. This way, should your STC value exceed the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering Torque", you will have 1:1 steering wheel torque matching. However, knowing whether your STC value has exceeded the car-specific "Nominal Max Steering torque" or not requires knowing what the car's Nominal Max value is set to and this i do not know how to check. Perhaps someone here can tell you if you do not know already.
A. I thought car specific nominal max is irrelevent if the STC setting is set higher? B. I doubt the wheel is producing 27 Nm of torque. We haf this discussion in the other thread (servi system thread) and they only produce 20 Nm give or take a few. C. I find it pathetic that an insanely capable steering system like the OSW will so noticeably produce inferior FFB/performance when using a 320 mm wheel. Wow, I'm extremely disappointed in the OSW.
It does. What i said there doesn't contradict that, i don't think you read it in its proper context. Well i don't know. I was going on what info he provided at the time. But it doesn't really matter to the point i was making. It's just the laws of physics at work. Increase the moment arm radius and you decrease the force required to equal the same torque. Same applies to any ffb wheel.
Output of IONI will be dependent on input current......almost 1:1 ratio according to Beano. Small MiGe could most likely achieve 27.5 NM from 600W MW, which equates to 12.5A RMS or 17.96A POS, with the small IONI capable of driving 18A POS. 13.5A POS = ~9.55A RMS Motor Torque = 9.55x2.2 = ~21NM. I could crank my amps up but 20Nm is about max for me, I took the megane at mid-ohio with FFB Multi 1.00, thats a workout but I did see the occasional ffb clip.
My bad DrR1, I didn't write my previous post too good. Only "A" was a direct response to you. "B" was a response to cookie. "C" was because of Korva's comments. I know it's physics at work but picking up a grain of sand is no different than picking up 5 grains of sand if you know what I mean. Technically it is, of course, but it's so small compared to my strength that I can't feel the difference. I thought the OSW had so much speed, torque, acceleration, and initial response time that going to a slightly bigger, and probably slightly heavier, wheel would almost be imperceptible to a human-being. I can't believe even people with OSWs have to worry about slightly larger, heavier wheels noticeably negatively affecting the FFB. That really sucks. You seem to understand the numbers much more than me, the following is what I got from Ollie (the popular guy selling the OSW): So can you tell me how to bring the OSW to 27 Nm? Are you using a different PSU? Even then, the IONI is limited... P.S. Ollie actually means the IONI Pro when he says just "IONI". So just a reminder that we're indeed talking about the pro version.
Hey Spinelli I was only quoting Beano he was the first to use the ioni drive for sim racing and seem's to know what he's talking about, but if Ollie has physically tested IONI Pro he must be right. I'm using the Antek Linear PSU which can provide high current for very short bursts.
When i said that ffb felt notable weaker, i compared the forces with tha same ffb multiblier value. Sorry for not mentioning that. By increasing ffb multiblier i was able to get as much force as i wanted.
Based on reading this thread and others, I have substantially edited this post. FFB Mult controls software clipping. STC controls the level at which the game will scale down the torque asked of the wheel in order to prevent strong wheels from providing unrealistically high torque for a given car. Hardware clipping is controlled by the wheel, and the game has no impact on this. Ideally we would have neither type of clipping. To prevent software clipping: Lower the FFB Mult to produce no more than flashes of red on Techaide's meter while riding curbs. If a strong wheel is being used then this can be reduced further to eliminate all red even on curbs, but this will lower the wheel's torque to less than 1:1 compared to torque force (assuming that the wheel has an STC greater than the NMST of the car, otherwise, lowering the FFB further reduces that ratio of wheel force/ force calculated).
I don't think STC and multi are different in that regard. I think they're actually essentially the same as DrR1 explained. You can change the STC and then manipulate the multi value so that in the end you're back where you started, and you can change the multi but then manipulate the STC value so that, again, you end up back where you started. The STC is basically just telling the game what amount of in-game physics torque amounts to the game telling your real-life wheel to output 100% force. Then you can raise/lower that with the multi. So in a way they're like the same thing. The STC is how you initially set 100% FFB output, then the multi can be used to raise/lower that entire range or whatever (easy to picture, a little more difficult to explain). The only thing that can change hardware clipping, from what I understand, is if you actually go into your wheel itself, or through the wheel itself's software, and change the amps, or volts or whatever it is ("electrical power stuff" lol) so as to make the wheel physically not able to, or able to, output a certain a mount of force and/or speed. Or even something like lowering the overall force would do it; it's probably the same thing actually (e.g. lowering your Thrustmaster T500RS overall force setting from 60% to 25%). Edit: I just re-read what you wrote, Z06. I think I know what you mean now. If STC is set to the wheel's max torque and FFB multi @ 1.0 then you can be sure there is no hardware clipping happening by looking at the pedal plugin clipping meter because the software clipping is now matched to the hardware so any software clipping would equal hardware clipping. It's sort of a way to use the meter to detect hardware clipping even though it technically only detects software clipping. Since the STC is accurately set to your wheel's max output, and your FFB multi is at 1.0, if the FFB clipping meter ever becomes red then you know that's also going to most likely mean hardware clipping (as well as software) since the hardware and software have been sort of matched 1:1 (assuming the STC is accurately set to what the hardware is physically capable of and if FFB multi stays at 1.0). Edit 2: Wait, as long as STC is accurately set to the hardware's limit then it shouldn't matter what the FFB multi is set to, red would equal hardware clipping (as well as software) no matter what because anything in the red zone would be over 100% which would be over the STC value which would then mean hardware clipping (assuming STC is set accurately the the hardware). So then it shouldn't matter what the multi is set to... Yes??? Lol...
STC or Nominal Max (whichever takes precedence for a specific car in question) sets the range of virtual steering wheel torque that is to correspond with the 0-100% range of ffb output. E.g. with STC/Nominal Max at 20Nm then 0-20Nm of virtual steering wheel torque will equate to 0-100% ffb output signal from sim. So if 10Nm occurs on the virtual steering wheel, our ffb wheel will receive a 50% ffb signal (since 10Nm = 50% of 20Nm). However, FFB multi changes things by adding a layer of calculation before this. So if we take the same example above, 10Nm occuring at the virtual steering wheel but let's say we were using FFB multi = 0.50 instead, then the final virtual steering wheel torque calculated/measured (before it's compared against the STC/Nominal Max value to work out the amount of ffb output the sim should send to the ffb wheel) is seen as 10Nm/0.50 = 20Nm. So now 10Nm virtual steering wheel torque will be seen as 20Nm by the ffb engine and thus produces 100% ffb signal output instead of just the 50% as before. If you set STC to match your ffb wheel but then change the ffb multiplier, you will not get 1:1 torque matching ofc. If you had a (e.g. 20Nm) ffb wheel and drove a car that had a nominal max of (e.g.) 13Nm, then setting the STC to 20Nm and leaving the ffb multi at 1.00 would produce 1:1 torques with plenty of headroom to avoid ffb clipping.
But you will theoretically get 1:1 hardware-software clipping whenever the clipping meter detects clipping if your STC is theoretically set to the max capability of your wheel, ya?
I finally made some time to experiment and think about the explanation for STC in this post and here at #141 also: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/24887-Karts-Steering-range-and-spinning-easily/page8 Bottom line: I was incorrect on my explanation above and I am going to edit it to make right. I experimented with various values of STC going as high as 100. I also learned, after much trial and error, that the controller file must be re-loaded in the game for changes to the Controller JASON file to take affect. I now believe that hardware clipping is a function of the wheel's programming only, and can't be affected by the game.
Hardware clipping is if the wheel maxes-out (can't output any more force) when the signal it receives from the software/game is less than 100%. Basically the wheel is outputting 100% while being told to output a less-than-100% value (e.g. 75%, 99%, etc.). Software clipping is when the software/game detects/sends-out a FFB value of more than 100%. You cannot have more than 100%. The software/game senses things happening in-game that should be output to your wheel at an even higher amount of FFB than 100% but that won't happen because the wheel cannot output and possibly 'understand" a value of more than 100%. Basically, the game is detecting/sending-out a signal that is higher than what it equates to a 100% value.
