Is rF2 really better in FFB experience?

Disclaimer: I am starting this thread because I have huge problems feeling the car with rF2 and assetto corsa compared to rF1. I have no intention to flame. I just need your attention and help.

Introduction

I own a g25. I also owned a gt3 rs v2 (crap oversteer-understeer feedback compared to the g25). I played rF1 for many years, mainly with formula mods. I was quite good in lap times, compared to really good drivers with fixed setups. I am not the last arrived.

How do I like to feel the car? For me, the main factors are oversteer-understeer. You HAVE to feel them, and you have to feel them IMMEDIATELY. I set up my rF1 after months of experiments in a way that when I lost grip the wheel goes really soft with almost 0 latency. In that way I can correct mistakes really easy. In particular, I played a lot with a mod featuring a real good FFB.

New simulators

Last year my community moved on to assetto corsa. My pc was obsolete, so I lost contact with the sim racing world. Finally, I bought a new pc last month, curious about the new generation sims.
My friends talked amazed about them, really good ffb, not comparable to rF1, new sensations, real simulators...

I tried formula mods both with assetto corsa and rF2. Many of them. I am really disappointed. Compared to rF1 it's like driving with a ps3 controller vs driving a real car. I can barely feel oversteer and almost no understeer. The oversteer feedback is almost always late, you're already spinning before you feel it (WHEN you feel it). I can't talk about understeer, it's just not there.

It's driving me crazy. I am used to fight for every tenths' of second taking the car to its limit. With rF2 and assetto corsa I can't just do it...It's impossible to feel the car behavior in time, or to feel it at all.
With GT mods things get a bit better, but I still prefer my old rF1 mod FFB by miles.

Settings

Now. Before you make any comments regarding FFB settings in assetto corsa or rF2, keep in mind that I past hours of my life touching parameters of controller.ini, logitech profiler, etc. I already tried a LOT of things. Nothing changed in a good way.

These is my G25 logitech profile:
View attachment 16658

I know all the thinking about not going above 102% of the general force. I just like it that way. It removes the initial deadzone, and I find WAY more useful a prompt responsive curve in the low end forces (aka in the slow turns, where oversteer happens the most at limit) then in high end forces (you're not really losing a formula oversteering at barcelona turn 3).

I already tried different values, as well as pumping up the damping etc.

I already tried different settings in assetto corsa: 0% damping, 80% damping; 0% grip and road effects, 70% grip and road effects... They're just trash.

I tried different FFB strenghts in rF2. 0.75, 0,80, 1.0, etc. I edited the controller, changing the friction to damping and viceversa. I changed the torque sensitivity, minimum, filter and capability. I feel they're all crap in regard to the old "FFB steer force grip weight" and "factor" in rF1. I miss them a lot.

My old rF1 mod

So this is it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/xqmacqba3wr76c9/MOD_FFB.rar
I uploaded my rF1 folder with just 1 car (my old loved mod), my controller.ini, my settings. It's all like I feel it on my G25.

What do you have to do? Just download it, extract the folder in your desktop, enter into the folder, change the video settings by clicking the rfconfig.exe, start up rfactor.exe, change your controller keys (throttle, gear up gear down etc., but don't touch other parameters), go to testing you only have 1 track, go to suzuka and load the only setup you see in the right bottom box.

Make some laps. Don't throw it away. It will feel strange. But when you get used to it, you will find natural to do like in real F1 onboard: you have an oversteer? You feel it WITH 0 LATENCY on you wheel, it gets natural to just opposite lock and rewind the wheel FAST as they do on real onboard, I repeat FAST as they do it. You don't have to panic and lift all of your throttle.
You can feel the car loosing grip even at low speed, in low corners. And it's all immediate. You're turning the wheel too much in a fast corner? you feel it immediately..understeer is there.

What's my problem?

I don't really know how people can say assetto corsa or rF2 are in another league. I mean, they are... They're worse.
I am not flaming... As I am the only one experiencing this frustration, I logically start to think that I have some hardware failure or some strange settings or some strange problems that I am not aware of. I can't really believe that I was the only one having a good mod and good FFB settings in rF1 for a decade, it's impossible.

Before posting any comments, please, do the comparison trying my loved rF1 mod. Try it, you don't have to install a thing, just copy the folder and run it... You can trash it afterwards.

After you experienced what i am talking about, can you please come back and post your thoughts? It's really driving me crazy.

 

Hey man!
I don't worry about times but I do chase that perfect lap, that feeling can't be matched. Maybe someone with one can help you in the short term.
I'm thinking, maybe you are expecting to much from old hardware.
Just an opinion(which is shared by a few) after replacing my G27 with a belt wheel, GT2 to be precise, so not exactly regal.
Really, after that initial adjustment, no way in hell I'm changing this feeling. Unless Accuforce

 

Feel free to try the mod with a G27, you don't have to own a G25. The feeling is similar.

I know your feelings, I had a gt3rs v2 (which is crappier then yours but still belt driven). It feels really good on hands, the FFB is way smoother and real, but...that's all. After switching to a G25, I can feel over and understeer... With the GT3, absolutely not. And I can't drive a car without those feedbacks

 

Have you ever tried this tutorial? For me improved.

http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...-for-rFactor-2-The-key-to-being-in-the-Zone-D

 

As I already mentioned it many times in the post, yes, I tried it. I tried lot of things...

Try what I've uploaded, then you can talk about differences

 

ffb is very subjective. Everybody drools over that ffb improvement thread, I think it's poop. I much prefer default with one tweak. If you're looking for advice, I say give it a couple of hours. After giving it a couple of hours and still don't like it, then stick with what you do like.

 

Olandese, I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to FFB. I tweaked my RF1 (including GSCE, GTL, R07, etc.) to make me feel the car amazing. I'm not so concerned about things like A. Increasing resistance as I turn the wheel more, B. Increasing resistance at higher speeds due to downforce, and C. Self centering of the wheel (I believe this is called self-aligning torque). What I care about is to feel the grip/tyre texture and I want grip of the 4 tyres sent to the wheel. I want my wheel to give me all sorts of communication regarding amounts of grip and slip of all 4 tyres including laterally (while in a straight line, not turning the wheel a single degree). All sorts of things like feeling the wheel gain/lose tension, feeling the wheel bite and un-bite, jolts, vibrations, and all sorts of stuff.

Unfortunately, you can't really do that in RF2. I believe RF2 is designed to be as technically realistic as possible, and therefore a huge majority of the FFB is dictated by the actual steering column forces just like in real life, and you can't really do anything about that. Now, you can edit a few lines in your controller file to manipulate how those ultimately get felt in your wheel, but you can't actually change/enable/disable what part of the physics affects your wheel and in what way.

Trust me, once you learn to get over it and deal with it - even if it does cost you in terms of driving performance - you'll have an amazing time in what many consider to be the best driving sim on the market: RFactor 2

 

Hi, I can also feel your frustration as I cannot feel any ffb in rf2....BUT it used to be awesome way beyond rf1. In fact when I played rf2 I could not play rf1 anymore!

But now for some reason rf2 ffb is not working for me at all :-( what I mean is that there could be something somewhere either with wheel or some setting. Hopefully I'll find out as im missing rf2 like hell. Btw I have g25 too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

I'm just a fast driver now in rF2, not the fastest or an alien, but fast at least. I actually don't know what to say about FFB tweaking... I really feel more confortable driving in rF2 than in rF1, I feel the opposite of you, in rF1 I had problems controlling the car near the limit, allways complaining about impossible to save slides, not noticing oversteer... I was fast but allways with this kind of problems, I crashed a lot. Now in rF2 I'm a lot faster because I can feel better through FFB what the car is doing, in league I played I managed to go top 3 against the same drivers in rF1, where I only anaged to be 5-10 of 24.

Maybe It's about taste, I can not go try rF1 again because I feel completly lost even trying to configure the same settings I used in the past. Some drivers I know lost a lot of time after changing to rF2 because they were used to rF1 handling and FFB and they felt strange, something similar to what you describe. I don't think that can be fixed through settings... at least I didn't need to change any setting from default in rF2, just multiplier.

Be patient, learn how tires work in rF2, in rF1 you can drive way more aggressive than you can in rF2 where you actually need to think about tires every lap, It's another world, this was the most common problem of my fastest league mates. Play in online races and get experience as you did in rF1, if you still don't feel confortable, I can not solve that. If there is not a config problem, rF2 is just like you are feeling.

 

The rf2 ffb is still the best up to the point of slippage where the transition between high level grip to low level grip feels odd, as if the tires where made out of full rubber and the friction feels like slip sticking tires, very rough without smooth transition with some cars.

Than there where cars where it feels as if it just knows grip, and slip, but the transition than don't tells you much about the drag or lateral accel on the tires, but transmits constant slip like feeling with constant friction, in a real odd way, as if it knows just two scenarios, heavy weight or light weight with to less info on the drag scale such as the vertical force.

Even the new CPM doesn't feels right at all.

And please don't kill me, i'm a noob and don't know much what am i talking about., but about what i sense, and it simply feels not right at all, where some other scenarios are great again, such as brake over bumps and feel slip sticking the tires while the suspension oscilating on high frequency.

I for one am of the opinion that balance between the basic forces are not optimal, such as Fx, Fz, Fy, Mz, apart from the odd patch in other scenarios.

And than there is this self alignment dominating general feeling, even while cornering which may is the result of the odds.

Another thing is the 4 wheel slip angle fight where the slip angle dictates the self alignment on the front axle, the forces you and asks for constant correction of the direction of travel.

In my opinion it is just about tiny details, the hold rf2 back from nearing nirvana.

 

interesting how everyone (AC, pC, iR, & i guess rf2?) say their ffb is JUST FROM THE STEERING RACK ITS THE REALEST yet all feel completely different?? isnt the point of doing these (supposed) "non-canned" ffb that its less open to interpretation?

anyway not really related i just find it interesting & probably a lot of toss. ive been thinking about it bc iR always says this about their ffb & now i see pC saying the same thing when there are complaints of no surface feel w/ default settings -- yet iR has as much or more than any sim.

 

This is very easy to feel/detect/experience in the new AC Cobra. The FFB is excellent up to that slippage point and then not so excellent. I agree the transition is too rough and not natural feeling.

 

In my opinion the slip angle and the interaction of 4 wheel forces isn't working right at all, as the patch and the tire forces in general as well, the usually dictade the sort of resistance and the direction the dominant force is coming from in different scenarious, and there isn't only the self alignment dictating the main resistor as it is mostly the case in rf2.

Lateral resistor is way more smooth. You can turn the steering while cornering even without to feel any high resistance other than some friction, and the car wan't turn in further but it also isn't understeering just because of low lateral accel. That simply is wrong.

Than the drag difference between inner and outer tire dictades the level of the resistor as well.

You can sometimes turn the car on the outer tire like it was a one wheel drive, where you should feel the carcase resisting and twisting while following the direction of travel. Here the lateral force dictades as for exanple and is influenced from the drag again, till the grip is lowering again and the car starts to slide.

I don't feel this resistors working right, and i even don't dive into patch work and surface tension and other details i have no idea about.

I fear if they develope further on this base and don't optimize this, it never will feel optimal or right at all.

 

What Jeferson said, with RF2, you don't have to mess with logitech profiler, just put the force you want and set all parameters to 0%. In the controller.ini there are in the end, just 3 or 4 setting that you want to adjust to your preferences. But I admit that is a bit of a long work at the beginning, but once you have found what work for you, you won't think about controller.ini anymore.

 

Don't think he will find a hotspot he will like, because he is looking after the on off ffb style as it seems.

To add this to the topic. While rf2 has the potential to nearing nirvana but yet isn't there at all, the best balance on tire forces and resistors i felt with Reiza's free to play title with low ffb effect setting and an optimal balanced overal strength in game + steering wheel driver.

Those cars do load the steering wheel right. It just misses some patch effects, but the main resistors are the best i've ever felt in any driving simulator.

rf2 needs there balance with the best possible patch model to be the best ever as a complete package in my opinion.

I can't understand how anybody can find it natural to steer in - correct slip angle - steer in again - correct slip angle - steer in again - and correct slip angle again, while the car is riding on full rubber like tires and constantly overturns the front end, the forces the driver and asks for constant correction of the direction of travel.

At exact this scenario the car transmitts wrong resistors, because the forces acting on the tire seem a mess to a part for my subjective feeling and how i sense the steering load.

I do have the feeling that the roughness and directness of the rf2 ffb is why people like it but don't really realize the odds or wan't see it.

I hoped the CPM would eliminate the odds, but the cobra isn't enough to rate it. We need a well known car with the CPM update.

 

your so tuned into the ffb in the main sim you used the most ( rf1 ) that adapting to another sims ffb is difficult

rf2 has the most rich ffb by a long way ahead of its closest competitor IMO (& no ffb is perfect )

don't think about ffb to much & just try to enjoy rf2, you'll adapt without realising it

 

Maybe it's that... I thought that was the right way to feel the car...

Anyway, is there a new wheel any good to improve my ffb experience? Or i can just keep my g25

 

Lots of people have a good experience with the G25 and G27 using RF2. I'd much prefer a T500RS or T300RS/TX though.

 

I agree with spinelli ( and many others) on the T300RS or TX. Or even a fanatec CSR. I was very pleased giving up my G27 for a CSR and now a TX. There are so many subtleties lost in the g25/27 dead zone, and the violent slamming around the center like on the Masta straight drove me crazy. No more.

I must say though that I had some technical issues with both the csr and TX. But fanatec always responded quickly and sent me parts for free. Thrustmaster has responded but the problem is harder to diagnose. (Ocasionally loses center) Still I would never go back to g27.

 

And I agree with Ricknau the CSR was the best inexpensive wheel before the TX came out. The Fana CSR has the power and smoothness of the Fana GT3 and GT2 but is quicker reacting and speed because of it's reduced weight.