Complete physics tutorial documentation!!!!

Discussion in 'Technical & Support' started by gpfan, Mar 12, 2015.

  1. gpfan

    gpfan Registered

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    Just wondering when we (modders) will be able to understand better how physics are implemented in RF2? New stuff came out some month ago and the documentation we have are a "bit" old, is anyone from ISI working on something like a complete tutorial for physics or RF2 physics are only for engineers and physicians?! Regular guys like me who want to make good mods with decent physics are struggling!!!!! It´s time for ISI to wake up and help MORE the modding community!!!!

    Some aspects i found difficult to implement:

    - Coordinates for steering wheel axis (how to find???)
    - PushrodOutboard=/PushrodInboard= instead of PushrodSpindle=/PushrodBody= How to calculate?
    - FWNegRakeDrag=/FWPosRakeDrag=/FWNegRakeLift=/FWPosRakeLift=?????

    Those are just a few, i´m positive lots of modders are questioning about other stuff.
    I manage to understand the new calculation of engine data and turbos only because i kind person posted a very nice spreadsheet to calculate those new values, ISI should be on it instead of usual users doing their job!
    We need URGENTLY Documentation for Physics ISI!!!
     
  2. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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  3. philman

    philman Registered

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  4. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    -infinity Read Bristow.

    If you've a question, ask it. It is easier for someone to answer 1 specific question than it is for them to write an all encompassing tutorial on car physics. That being said:
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/3115-Steering-wheel-axis

    edit:
    For the PushrodOutboard entries read up on the Ultra chassis info. Look at any entry that is distributing something to an individual subbody (ex: FuelTankForceDistrib).

    edit2:
    Look at the trainer comments for your aero questions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2015
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    More often than not those arguing that there needs to be more documentation because of all the unknowns either don't name those unknowns or when they do it turns out someone else does know what it is and how it works. Occasionally someone comes along and asks a more advanced question that shows they already grasp all the simpler stuff... much of which appears 'unknown' to others.

    rFactor 1 was easier to mod, because it simplified a lot of things. rFactor 2 simplifies less, so it does require more knowledge and/or research to understand what you're dealing with. If you're modding a car, especially from scratch, you need to have some knowledge of cars. A lesser simulation, or a non-simulation, would make it easier because it controls more of what you can do.

    Not suggesting everything is known, but there's a shortage of questions about specific lines/issues in comparison to passing references to things that can't be worked out or require documentation. So a lot of the gaps can be filled simply by asking, instead of giving up after 10 mins looking for a magic bullet (no offense to the OP).
     
  6. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    Yes, but the description/formula on each line of the HDV (or other files), how to do right suspension with the provided tools, and so on are a best mean to avoid to loose time with test/fix, test/fix on some elements not documented. Like it's done for the Integration of car, but for the physics parts. There is new parameters in rF2, but some are quite confusing to fine tune in the right way without explanation from the physics dev.

    rF2 is more complex, so need more time than rF1, so some documentation will reduce the time to search/experiment to get a reasonable hobby time to do things in the right way.

     
  7. gpfan

    gpfan Registered

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    Yes exactly what i thought when i was writhing the post in first place, instead of asking/questioning every time we need to understand something, we should have documentation to go directly to the source! Sadly ISI isn´t very worried about what modders need this days even if they made a more complex physic engine where the need to have a better understanding of it is a must! But who cares right?!

    At least i was waiting for a "official" answer but like we see here no words from official source. I hope some day we will see the light of day of a comprehensive tutorial, most probably from someone outside ISI , facilitating the modder life in building better content for what they created for us..... In mean time i will flood the forum with questions about my doubts, if the system is ask.... well i will be asking!!!! :)

    Was not talking about that steer axis, was talking about this ones :
    SteeringShaftBaseLeft=(0,-0.024786,-0.627603) // Location of steering shaft relative to steering arm
    SteeringShaftBaseRight=(0,-0.024786,-0.627603)
    SteeringShaftAxis=(0.275637,0,-0.961262)
    SteeringInnerTable=(0.34766,-0.0348,-0.624732):(-0.27484,-0.0348,-0.624732) // Steering arm inner locations (left arm):(right arm) with maximum left steering application
    SteeringInnerTable=(0.27484,-0.0348,-0.624732):(-0.34766,-0.0348,-0.624732) // "" for maximum right application, more table entries can be added for non-linear steering or steering racks that don't move in a perfectly straight line
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2015
  8. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Without knowing the real answer, I think there are clues in those coordinates. Why not try plotting them out on the suspension model?

    The first pair appear to be the position of the steering shaft in relation to the steering arms; since they're essentially the same coordinates, then I'm guessing it's a formula car. Which would make the tables be full-left and full-right positions? Steering shaft axis would somehow indicate the direction and/or length of the steering shaft?
     
  9. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    IMO you should avoid speculating on what other people think or care about. They're obviously spending enough time getting features into the game and making them work properly, without dedicating hours to writing tutorials.

    That will help you, and anyone else with the same question(s) later :)

    One in particular, or all of them? Are the commented ones not clear enough for you? (serious question... not being condescending)
     
  10. MerlinC

    MerlinC Registered

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    I absolutly agree that there should be a repository / Wiki where the different parameters are documented. IMO asking questions can be an incremental step if everything isn't crystal clear after reading the documentation and/or a function, parameter is not working as expected - but how would you be able to ask specific questions when you never get a brief overview?

    Furthermore very often the feedback in the forum is inconsistent and it takes very long to dig out the needed information from and to find the right post. A well structured wiki (moderated by ISI) could easily solce this. Important is that ISI is doing the confirmation whether an article in the Wiki is correct or not - nobody else does no and is just posting a hypothesis.

    Example: What do the new parameters in the engine file mean. What is the range of allowable values?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2015
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Which new parameters?
     

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