I am sure you remember all comments in forums that rFactor2 is "ice-simulator" do you see those topics now? I don`t think so and reason to that is huge grip and feel of slip angle. Like rFactor2 is today can every gamer grab kb, gamepad or wheel and challenge best "simracers" , skill level is simply too low , rFactor2 is much like AC, pCars etc. now. rFactor2 is not a sim anymore it is just another video game out there.
Yup - always the same replies when users answer queries instead of devs/admins. "Everything is fine. You're doing it wrong. Other sims suck." Sheesh. All FFB simulation has to be 'arcade' by definition, since it is not realistic and never can be. You get no inner ear feedback, you get no gravitational feedback, so the Wheel has to change its behaviour to give you clues about the level of grip and slip angle you are experiencing. rF2 is not doing this so its FFB is not working correctly. Too many people adapt to visual clues in the game and stop realising that the FFB is not working properly - they might as well race with a controller, it won't make much difference to them. Keep defending the non-working system and you can have your own little club of believers whilst sales suffer because drivers from other sims want the FFB to work properly...
I'm having a little doubt you have any real life experience although your sort of trying to imply you do. In real life you don't drive the car using the feel in the wheel (end on nonPS cars) as much as we do in sims. I would say 5% wheel and the rest is visual and physical. Anyways, I just explained how rF2s FFB works. It is directly connected to steering arm forces just like a real car. Slip angles impact the forces on the steering arms so slip angles are naturally felt in the FFB. rF1's FFB did the fake thing where it looked at tire loads, track surfaces and stuff like that and then tried to "simulate" the FFB. This is how most of the other sims are doing it still. It produces heavy forces which many confuse as being realistic. The fact is, our toy wheels don't have the force needed to have the dynamic range needed to fully simulate a real car. So in a realistic sim like rF2 you end up with a much lighter feel. If you stick with it long enough to adjust to the lighter feel (like relax your death grip) you will start to notice there is a whole lot more detail in there to drive on. But if you don't like it, why are you here?
In real life, as I keep pointing out, you use inner ear and your arse to know what the car is doing ahead of the visual clues. I NEVER said that RL driving uses the wheel for feedback, so why are you implying that I did? Is this just some sort of point-scoring exercise? I know exactly why FFB is supposed to have those extra forces and if it doesn't have them then you might as well use a non-FFB Wheel with a big spring and strap a rumble pad onto it because it's not doing it right. I have light FFB dialed in, with correct 'slip', in all my other sims because I don't like the wheel to be artificially heavy - writing them all off as fake, as I already said, is puerile. They actually work, this doesn't. Why am I here? Because I was hoping for a decent current-gen sim that was actually driveable, rather than an arcade game designed for people using 'visual clues' instead of simulated FFB at the wheel, since the latter is a much better replacement for the total lack of gravitational forces which anyone who has ever actually raced a real car depends upon. Don't worry, I won't bother you all again - I can see you're all happy with whatever they're passing off as FFB around here.
No, it is done right. It doesn't add fake forces to compensate. In the end of the day it is just a different phylosophy. And since each customer has a different view, some (like myself) think rF2 is the right way, others (like you) think other games/sims do it the right way. But that is the great thing. You get to chose the product(s) you want to use. If you like the others, feel free to play them, if you like this, then feel free to play this. And if you like them all? well, feel free to enjoy all of them. Like I said, rF2 FFB isn't broken, it is just another phylosophy that suits some customers more, and other customers less...
I raced competitive in league whole year and I never noticed any major change in FFB with new builds (there was a minimal change in summer but it didn't remove my feeling for car). rF2 is generally recognized of having the best FFB of newer sims, at least that's the impression I get when I read comments from all forums. Other sims require a lot of tuning, for example AC FFB is clipping like hell with default settings. rF2 works out of the box quite well on my G27. All I can suggest is fiddling with FFB multiplier and "steering torque minimum" player file value, those two are pretty much the only parameters that may need tweaking.
I have to confess I find rf2 ffb is far far better with a belt driven wheel, having used a g25 previously.
People who are still playing RF2 have learned that green track + cold tires = ice simulator and learned how to cope with it, the others have left to greener pastures. Be reassured, I have a friend who is a very good real world driver (powerful cars and bikes), but not a sim racer, not exactly leaving in sunny California (so knows about rain, ice, etc.) be unable to drive a single lap without spinning several times after trying for 45 mn. Told me the sim was highly unrealistic... So to everyone it's own truth. Cheers.
Either that's painfully obvious trolling or you really just are that clueless. Don't know, tbh. Kinda hoping for the former. Completely immune to any sort of reasonable explanation. You really should try to open your eyes a bit, teach yourself some humility. Noel knows what he's talking about, trust me. Calling the other sims' ffb "fake" isn't done to put them down per se, like saying "dude, that guy is just so fake". It's just an expression that describes that artificial forces that doesn't come from the actual physics of tghe sim are added to make the ffb more "heavy".. as has been explained to you, how many times now? It is not a "claim" or an "accusation". It's just fact. No discussion is needed. However what each user prefers is a discussion of the ages (and not that interesting when you think about it). Just because you are used to "the old feeling" (the "artificial" feeling) doesn't mean that rF2 is broken because it feels that different to you. There is a very concrete reason that rF2 is widely regarded and acknowledged as having the best ffb on the market. It isn't just mass psychosis. rF2 has a very unique ffb philosophy which makes it stand out from its current competitors. But whatever. Very nice to have met you.
"but not a sim racer" You can't jump in a sim and instantly adjust for the lack of physical forces on your body. I have some real racing experience in the past. I'm not a gamer so it was real racing that lead me to sim racing in 1996. I have lots of friends who I met through real racing. In fact my core group of friends are all from the racing community. The majority of them have done laps on my rig and they all experience the same spinfest but rather then giving up, they all wanted to build their own rigs. Several of us ended up racing in rF1 on Monday nights online. This is what eventually lead to me wanting to join a league. But all of these guys eventually got used to not having gforces and all agree that the car reacts the way one would expect. As I've said in the past, take the opinion of real racers with a grain of salt. Clearly if they race in real life and some person who doesn't is able to beat them in a sim they are going to claim it isn't realistic to protect their ego. Hahaha. Also a lot of these driver testimonies are paid for.
rF1 was also regarded as having very bad FFB up until TechAde and Kangloosh (founder of rF-Pro) created the RealFeel plugin which works almost 100% like rF2 by directly taking the steering arm forces and applying them directly to the wheel. GSC is also regarded as having very good FFB, because it also makes use of RealFeel.
I would take that a step further. All of these testimonies are paid for in some way. (ie. lifetime membership and free content)
Noel, I understood the meaning, but my (rather provocative) question was directed at another point entirely: was he (& others) referring to other major sims faking the steering shaft torque? From my understanding, both iRacing and AC at least attempt to do this properly (the former made a big point of this some time ago). Of course, our wheel torque range is the focal limiter here, and complete linearity (which should be the objective) will lead to little feel in the low range. Still, I haven't found this to be an issue in rf2, even with a relatively low-torque g27.
All in all, the evolution of overall driving, emotion is quite realistic, whether it could be better ? Yes in some details, but not dramatically. I think the adaptation/balancing of the vehicles/content to the new steering/chassis/suspension system and the further development of the tire physics will also contribute to it for the better.
Luckily ISI doesn't share the jaundiced view of real driver input http://www.formulatwo.com/news/rfactor-2-latest.aspx Yes some drivers have been paid to endorse a game in the past with no input to development. Yes, 10 or 15 years ago most real racing drivers would have no racing sim experience and so struggle to translate their experience to a sim. But today I would suggest most will have sim experience. And while a real race driver can't give you a great physics model, nor supply you with most of the data you need to put into the physics model, they are the only people qualified to check the results of your model and data and help you fine tune it. Especially in that region where there isn't much data - how a tyre behaves on and past the limit. I have been involved with creating physics for both GPL and GTR2 mods and in both mod teams real driver input was invaluable.
Not sure about iRacing, but AC uses a number of canned "fake" effects, I'm not sure what all is exactly included in this. In AC you also get max torque forces in almost every corner with default settings, when in many racing cars you should only be getting about half of max in slow corners (this is why rF2 FR3.5 is often quoted of having lack of feeling in slow speeds).
