Lets Talk Racing! - Car/Track Techniques, Setups, Telemetry, Replays, Help/Advice,Etc

Hello

I recently practising around the track Leman91 and was struggling in a few corners with the AIs. I found I frequently suffered inside front wheel lock when braking before corner "Mulsanne". In some cases the right front tire temp exceeded 100 cDeg. while others around 60 cDeg after the corner. The brake bias had been optimized (I think) and tried to increase the front anti-roll bar. I also tried to brake earlier so as to smooth the whole braking process, it helped a bit but lost quite much time when comparing to AI.

Any tips you would recommend?

 

Thanks for all the braking tips, Hermmie, Jamie and speed1. I do have a foam block under the pedal to add some resistance, the problem is that it doesn't have any relation to the braking threshold in the sim. Maybe I will try different materials to see if I can find something that matches better.

I will try that. I didn't think of looking at the tire temps for that. Other good suggestions too.

Great information. Very helpful. I'll try testing with a setup like that to get a better feel for the brakes in relation to the pitch of the front end.

 

Try pressing 'Alt' and '=' to see the contact patch widget. It shows the shape of the contact patch as well as the heat colours. You can even see hot spots going round

 

rongarz. Lower brake sensitivity to 25-50%. (I also do this with my throttle, personal preference). I used to do some very fast times with my old Logitech Momo Racing pedals (almost identical to the DFP and DFGT pedals). Also, decrease brake pressure, if you need to, in the car's setup options.

 

Nice that I could help.

What you can do even is the pressure point of the pedals to use as an adjustment-with the braking response of the vehicle on step speed.

This means the vehicle should respond to the point of the pedal where you have the feeling the car should stop or slow down.

I use step speed for that, i start rolling the car and step on the pedal, start rolling and step on the pedal, until i have the feeling the pedal/foot movement and resistance i feel/sense matches with the stopping or response of the car.

 

Very helpful, thanks. I didn't know about that one. That makes me wonder if there is a comprehensive manual somewhere. I found a few commands listed at the site below, but is there no official manual yet? I didn't see one on the main downloads page. The only ISI documents I found are all modding related.

http://legends-league.com/wiki/rf2Buttons

Thanks, I'll try that too. Good to know that you could get some decent times with those pedals. I may eventually upgrade, but I want to do all I can calibrating and practicing with these to get the most out of them first.

 

I don't know exact definitive terms so all I can do is try to explain how I have coast fixed in my little pea brain. Coast percentages are engine drag translated to the diff.
Take for instance URD T5 cars, when driving one of these and coming hard down a straight and lift at breaking point into corner, just as I gear down and start to accelerate out of corner, with default setup rear end will usually try to step out. If I reduce the coast percentage I have more control of slowing down vehicle with out the rear end stepping out. (then other setup adjustments will follow).

And that brings out a question that has always bugged me, when to change gears in a corner? Before or after. Seems like I'm always switching before or after depending on the corner and how it feels more fluid, but in the end I really don't know which is proper, before or after?

Should sound like a perfectly noob explaination for coast settings.

 

Top 10 GTL Rank times with every single 60s GT and TC car (haven't gone on to the 70s GT cars yet, too many sims, too little time) with no aids (including no auto clutch), and almost always with 10 laps of fuel. Then again, I could massively tune the rF1 style FFB to really help me with car feel under braking - something not possible in most of today's sims.

Weird, because coast diff is supposed to be for corner entry (when you lift off the throttle), but you are talking about corner exit - "start to accelerate out of corner". I can almost guarantee you that the lower the coast diff number, the more "free" and therefore nervous the rear can get on corner entry. Are you sure it wasn't the power or preload that you were adjusting?...


EDIT: I just realized that the paragraph above (about my fast GTL times) was when I was already using G25 pedals. My mistake.

 

how to use motec

It is good that we have this thread and I would like to ask some questions about how to use motec. And I'm not talking about how to work with the program but how to use the available data we have and how to use it (setting up a car, explain cars behavior(understeer, oversteer), looking where you loose or win time). I already found the the section times, you can see how much time you loose or win at a certain turn or straight over different laps. You also get an eclectic lap time which is very useful.

As there is also said in this thread that you need to watch the tire temps and that you need te keep an certain temp difference between inner tire temp en outer tire temp to achieve maximum grip and to spread the load evenly over the tire. And this is a point where I struggle. This is a lap around Symmons Plains Raceway in the BTCC civic and I can't get the outer temp of the car within about 20°C away from the inner tire temp from the tire who are loaded (mostly the FR and RR tire because most turns are left handers). I already tried lower the tire pressure and still no luck, right now I'm almost at the lowest tire pressure you can set in this car and still the outer tire temp doesn't want to get even close to the inner tire temp. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions, hints or tips?
View attachment 14351

I also have a problem with the skip barber regional tire temps, the middle tire temp is higher then to inside tire temp when going trough a turn. I already tried putting more camber or lower the pressures but no luck. Here I can get the outer tire temp within the 20°C delta from the inner tire temp which I can't explain why I can't do that in the civic. Also when I try lowering the pressure and I drive the car is less stable when I take a turn that puts some reasonable load on the tire. I thought that lower pressure provides more grip? or am I wrong?
View attachment 14354

This are some random problems that I have with some cars, not tested other ones. I try to learn how to understand the data that's available but I can't do it on my own. I'm looking for some more experienced people around this subject.
For example I would like to know why tires start to spin when you put to much power on them. I know it has something to do with the longitudal force the tire can give under acceleration and you try to get more 'Grip' from it which it can't deliver. Also it has something to do with how much load there is on the tire and stuff like that. I like to learn that stuff so I can explain why I'm understeering there on track and how can I solve that with some setup work (which setting do I need to change).

I will give you guys my setup that I have build for the civic around Symmons Plains Raceway and also the data file for motec so you guys can look at them. I'm here to learn and every kind of information I will appreciate.
I already have quite some good knowledge about what the setup settings do in the garage, I just relay want to know how to use the data to my advantage for setup making or some other driving inputs that can make me quicker.

I'm sorry for my English, I relay try hard to make myself understandable

 

I can't drive right now because I just sold my pedals (getting CSP V2) but some quick pointers:

- lower pressures can provide more grip but up to a certain point where the softness of the tyre will be too soft and cause in-direct and sloppy handling (kind of like going too soft with suspension).

- Try less camber if the outside is not heating enough. Lowering pressures may increase the outer but it will increase the inner as well.

- Anti-Roll bars really affect tyre temps as well. You can always try playing with that.

Do you have a replay you can send me that I can take a look at for now?

 

The sloppy handling isn't relay the problem when driving the skip barber regional when lowering the pressure. The car looses grip when going to a turn that puts an higher load on the tires. Is there a way to see in motec why this loss of grip is occurring?

Will try less camber but are we looking at tire temps who are as close as possible at each other(inner middle outer) when going trough a corner for maximum grip? Or does higher camber always give more grip?

I know that anti roll bars are very important. Softer anti roll means more load on the tire when going trough a corner = more camber. If you look at the setup for the civic I made the front anti roll bar is detached en the rear is at it's max. To get max front grip possible or am I seeing this wrong?

Any hint or tips or reads about data interpretation? How to use it for setting up a car and stuf like that? (I read some motec guides but they are for older simulators and most of the channels used are not available in rFactor 2.

here is an lap of me not my fastest lap but it's around my race pace laps
View attachment 14359

 

Do not waste your time, it is incorrect, people believe it is not, but it is, vehicles do not behave as, only defective or scrap does.

 

Can you explain yourself? Why do you think that way?

 

Been a while since I've heard the name Oscar Larrauri. Since I was a fan of Stefano Modena, and had the privilege of being in the paddock, spent a bit of time hovering around the Eurobrun garage in 1988. Saw Oscar quite a few times, never spoke to him, but did take a few happy snaps of him though!

 

6/26/13 – Skip Barber Formula 2000 1.46 (first release) - from the dev corner

It isn't up to date of todays rf2 capabilities, as well as tires for all vehicles are not yet fully developed.

 

He drove all the Porsche 962 versions you could imagine, so my "team mates" and I, as endurance drivers, we wanted to know more about that era. He received us very friendly to talk about several technical themes.

 

Hmmm. There hasen't been an update yet?

 

It's not just about "soft equals max grip". If that was the case then every car would have one of the ARBs at full soft or full hard, and either the front or rear springs at full soft or full hard. The softness can make things less instant and direct, and also mean more roll, squat, dive etc. all this stuff can contribute to ill handling and a seeming lack of grip.

Also, I mentioned the ARBs to you in terms of manipulating tyre temps, rather than for general handling characteristics. I was saying that you can use different ARBs to affect tyre temps (and probably pressures too) rather than just relying on adjusting tyre pressures and camber.

I don't think the tyre temps will generally be the same (in, mid, out), because even if the tyres are are perfectly flat with the ground for a split second or so in the middle of the corner, the tyres will be un-flat with the surface for much, much more of the time (all the straights, braking, etc.). So by the time you get to the corner, you're starting point for the tyre temps will be when the inners - generally speaking - are the hottest, and the short amount of time in the corner is probably not enough time to make the temps all even. I could be wrong, of course, but that is just my personal opinion on it after thinking about it for a bit.

 

To understand Telemetry you must first have a good understanding of how all the tunable systems in a car work.

This is quite informative

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.racedepartment.com%2Fattachments%2Fracer_alex_advanced_f1_setupguide-pdf.46273%2F%3Fversion%3D1985&ei=mYomVOHMKNHXaq7XgegN&usg=AFQjCNFeyLarfa5tSaBjvLnRqLo6PY-QbA&bvm=bv.76247554,d.d2s

 

Nothing solid that I'm aware of.