Will rFactor 2 Live up to its Predecessor's Legacy?

Best post in this thread. Spot on!

 

If ISI's target market was only hardcore simmers they never 'd included features as F1..F7 driving aids which can turn rF1 and rF2 to arcade. No company can survive selling a number of life-time licenses for few enthusiasts.

If you don't try to cover all sort of customers you'll be probably dead. Of course ISI provides more field to hardcore simmers and pCars is more adaptable to newcomers but both should be user friendly for all those about racing cars and car races, hardcore or not, experienced or not. And in this matter there's clearly a staff doing a better job than the other.

 

rF2 is not arcade with driving aids. Does real-life turn into arcade with driving aids? No. The rF2 physics model, tyre model, etc. does not change if you enable aids. If the aids actually used a different, arcade mode tyre model / physics system then you could say the aids turn it into arcade, however rF2 does not do this and therefore enabling aids does not make the rF2 vehicle dynamics/behavior model arcade, just like how disabling all aids in a "regular" racing game (codies F1, Grid, Dirt, etc. etc.) does not make it a sim.

 

Pretty sure a bunch of the V8 Supercars are using LED's that light up when a wheel has locked up...seems pretty arcade to me...XD

In addition to what Spinelli says, if a car IRL has a race ABS or traction control system, then if I am in the mood for a proper simulation (as best as can be done with the software) I will enable the relevant settings. If I look at a Early to mid 2000's F1 car, I'll probably have TC, and stability control on. Similarly, going for a rF2 rank laptime or trying to challenge myself, I'll set the aids to all off.

It's always good to have choice, so the user can decide what he/she wants to do, not the company deciding for you.

 

This! (at least the part i copied)

 

"Only"... lol

Because technologically accurate sim car physics that feels miles better than the competition's cars isn't at all important.
Me oh my, rF2 takes such a pounding... No hope at all, lol!

 

rF2 TC system is way simplified (like in the rest of sims, except perhaps some iRacing cars). You cannot compare to real TC systems.

 

All well and good having this technology but if its not complete or work properly what's the point. The general view out there that rf is a broken product. No ones buying into it. It needs some serious progression forget bloody cars and tracks, fix the weather and other things atm its just a tech demo!

 

It's there currently and it works. It gives some form of TC to a car that should have TC when I am going for as much simmyness as possible. On the low setting, you can still get wheelspin and good slipping drive out of a corner, which I find gives a good enough simulation of it for now.

So it can be said again in this thread, seeing as it probably hasn't been said a million times before...the people who make cars and tracks are unrelated from the people who make the core of the game. To ask one group of people to stop would not help the other group, all it would do is limit the work they could be doing on their respective area.

I would sometimes love to see rF2 sit with an as restrictive core that AC has. It's all good to mention for example that wet weather is broken, but then wet weather isn't even present iR or AC. So if the devs had decided not to work on a proper dynamic road surface or wet weather or a 24/7 time cycle or changeable weather conditions then yes, maybe they would have had a lot more sussed out by now.
But yes,this gets me labelled as a member of the rF2 defense force.

 

The people who share your view sure are very loud when condemning rF2.

It's a band waggon thing, imo. A few tone setting people who don't like the sim make sure they yell it loud enough to the world.
The people who like it aren't nearly as loud. Maybe it has to do with them being labelled as "fan boys" or whatever pathetic nonsense is being thrown.
This makes it seem as if rF2 isn't respected or adored by anyone in the sim racing community. This does indeed make for a very distorted image imo.

More and more people are being drawn into rF2. Every few months the sim becomes more complete and even more people will be drawn in.

Just the other day I had a fantastic experience.
My childhood friend, who all through his life only has been into console arcade racing games such as Gran Turismo (we played a lot together from GT3 onwards), came to visit me.
I hadn't seen him for a few years or so, and in the meantime I had started sim racing, while he was still into arcade stuff.
He's a bit of a "graphics whore" too (adorable term, I know...).

I decided to let him try out rF2, without telling him too much about it beforehand. He had never heard of it before, nor any other sims for that matter.
His immediate response wasn't "woooow those graphix look awful", nor did he whine about the number of cars/tracks, the AI or anything.

He was however completely amazed with how real it felt racing these cars! That was the only thing he was on about, for 3 straight hours, completely immersed in the sim.
I know him very well, and seldom have I seen him that concentrated and focused, struggling in the Skip Barber to string a full lap together.
For the first time he really felt the tires beneath him, the rears about to lose grip, the fronts locking up, the bumps in the track, everything.
Very overwhelming experience in the nicest sense of the word.

He was completely sold. So was another two copies of rF2, after he had told his other Gran Turismo buddy about it.
So no, rF2 isn't in any sort of crisis, even in its current state. That's what makes me so happy. When it comes to the driving, it's above and beyond. And that's what matters to me, more than official licences, infinite amounts of laser scanned tracks, huge multiplayer lobbies. etc.

Well. Haters gonna hate. They're the ones missing out imo.

 

I have been competing in on-line sim racing for 14 years now- 'multiplayer' -starting with GPL- recently some of the friends i made in various leagues have been spotted coming over to rf2 ......they are mostly historic enthusiasts but i take it as a sign of things to come - people who try it and like it will stick around - i kept rf1 on my hard drive but i cant drive it anymore - as nice as the liveries are/were- and as good as the sim was- it has been far outpaced by the dynamic environment you can race in with rf2- the cars are better , the tracks are better , the physics are better and it has a visceral feel like a real race car does - rf2 leaves rf1 in its dust - hands down better - legacy? its not old enough or well developed enough yet to have a legacy

the people not complaining are too busy racing the thing

 

As far as I understand, and feel free to correct me on this, ISI is a company with relatively small fixed costs. They may not experience a massive pressure to gain sales volume. Companies in general should strive to do at least something better than their competitors. With rF2, this emphasis is clearly on the physics and FFB which raises its head in the ISI-generated content (although I will not say it's the outright best in my opinion). This feature is sure to attract most of the dedicated sim racing enthusiasts. Even if they don't regularly use rF2 (I am an example of this), they will surely be interested enough to buy the product.

It's natural to think the successor of a hugely popular product carries on along the track of its predecessor. However, rF2 will surely not live up to its predecessor's legacy, solely due to the fact the field of sim racing is so different today. I also question whether this is a necessary, or indeed, valuable goal to ISI at all. As many have pointed out, the quality of in-house content is in an entirely different league compared to 2005. This is, in my opinion, visible in all of the major sims. However, is the heavy mod-centricity of rF1 really a worthwhile goal? Bluntly put, it is really a reason for enthusiasts to keep on driving rather than for newcomers to approach the sim.

In many ways, rF2 is my favourite sim. The exhaustive attention to detail and the scope of different factors modeled is something to admire. When everything works, the FFB and immersion is marvellous. However, rF2 is also, by a large margin, the most infuriating sim of the present catalogue, as getting to that "sweet spot" sometimes seems hopelessly difficult. To make matters worse, the mod content, much of it excellent, feels detached and something that requires a lot of tinkering. The best example I can come up with is the combination of two fantastic pieces of user-generated content: the Weather Tool and the Minimalist HUD. Both are almost game-makingly awesome features, and the Weather Tool in particular, a way for rF2 to differentiate. Sadly, these functions cannot operate together in rF2. What a dream it would be to go to the rF2 menu with the Minimalist HUD, and simply select "Live Weather" from some plugin menu.

As the product remains now, I will be surely returning to it every once in a while, simply to sample the unique feeling of driving. I will leave online racing to other titles, but that's ok. rF2 is fine if ISI has the economic strength to carry on their operations. Little bits here and there could make it more than the sum of its current parts; whether those bits will arrive remains to be seen.

 

I just spent the last 2 days driving all night one single car (Eve F3) at just 3 different tracks ("classic" Monza, Spa, and Monaco). Literally, I was on a binge. About 8 hours of play today and 6 hours yesterday.

14 hours of racing 1 single car on just 3 different tracks in a 48 hour period and I still want more (unfortunately my eyes, mind and body are shutting down and I need sleep, lol). There is no sim as majestic to drive/play as rFactor 2. It is unbelievable. I have no idea what the heck some of you guys are on for you guys to dismiss and whine about the best gameplay/driving experience in the market because of... accesseability??, graphics??? laser scanning (as if anyone would know if a track really was laser scanned or not), how may platforms it's developed on? LOL what the..? I think some of you just need to focus on driving/racing, it seems many of you don't enjoy the sim aspect as much as you want a shiny overall package.

I spent the last 2 or 3 days driving the F3 Eve at "classic" Spa, Monza, and Monaco in the F3 Rookies server. Some of the most amazing experiences in all of simracing. Triple screens, Nvidia 3D Vision, V.FOV 25, I felt like I was back in my mom's town in Italy as I was flying through those tracks. At one point my senses were playing tricks on me and I honestly thought I was smelling the Italian air. I had my window open with a breeze, but the smell was all in my head because of the INSANE immersion from the graphical style/look of the rF2 tracks combined with 3D, triple screens, and a V.FOV of 25, combined with the physics, combined with the FFB, LOL. People are absolutely NUTSO when they flame rFactor 2. I've never in my entire life felt so immersed in a game where my senses/brain literally played tricks on me and actually made me think I was smelling the air of a place across the world. It was actually kind of creepy, thought there was something wrong with me at one point. And guess what, none of those things mentioned (platforms, pcars/ac gfx, accesseability? better MP? etc.) would have affected the experience in a positive way if they gameplay/driving suffered even the slightest amount.

It's like someone going to a racetrack to seriously race, but they complain because the look of their wheels aren't as nice and shiny as another car, so they complain and whine even though their car drives better. It just makes no sense. Their car drives the best. It is the most amazing experience to drive, yet the driver would trade in that car for a worse car just because it has nicer/shinier wheels. Seriously? I guess many people aren't into simracing as much as they just want an overall "good enough" package.

The game with the best GAMEPLAY (it's a game after all, isn't it?) automatically wins, shiny pixels and things like that are just bonuses on top, but they add nothing to the actual driving/physics/ffb, it's purely aesthetic.

 

Yup....ive been driving the heck out of it for 2 years and seeing the negative comments brings me to the same conclusion - i dont care which 'hud' i have to use - i dont see it anyhow - im on the track racing

 

Sorry for OT (you can reply via PM if you like) but what's your process like when you do this, Spinelli? I've been driving the same combo for the last two weeks and still only the tip of the iceberg. I haven't even started setup testing yet because I am still achieving gains with base setup. Only after I plateau (AI strength and personal best lap) will I then begin using DeltaBest then VCR Merge then Replay Office analysis tools maybe and still only for driving and only then will I start setup testing without then with DeltaBest then VCR Merge then analysis tools then Motec. I figure that will last me the next six months with only a single combo lol.

 

And your single purchase will support ISI for years.

 

Very true. I think only iracing has a complex TC system.

 

Well, driving a FR 3.5 with full aids becomes driving very arcadey to me. If there're non-existing driving aids available, then it's not simulation to say the least.

 

I haven't gotten into analyzing anything yet. Just literally driving and driving online in the F3 Rookies server. I was given a setup by DurgeDriven and ISRmule (thanks guys) and then I tested that until I got pretty good times, then just made little changes 1 by 1 and laps in between to test. Also working on lines and different techniques instead of just relying on purely setup all the time. Following, or being followed by other guys to see where/how you are loosing time, etc. I haven't downloaded DeltaBest or VCR Merge yet. I kind of just like using the 3 sector splits, call me crazy. They are both GREAT tools though, definitely. I'll be downloading VCR Merge soon though.

I loved F1 Challenge 99-02 with it's built-in telemetry.

Oh, by the way, DurgeDriven is VERY generous with regards to watching you drive, giving you tips, telling you what you're doing wrong, what you should do, etc. He was/is a great help and is often in the F3 server during the evening and early morning pacific standard time.

 

well in those terms what i mean is that rf2 will continue to attract those that want a robust set of driving features in a sim such as the phsyics, RR etc ;are more concerned with 'feel' and are less concerned with some of the other details such as the screen shot abilities of the sim - i am in a couple of leagues and see new drivers coming along all the time .....i dont hear any raves about graphics etc but i do hear raves about the driving feel in this sim - and that will continue to attract hard core sim racers