Dallara DW 12 Indycar

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brettfan, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    If laptimes are clearly faster, assuming we are using a very accurate track (such as ISI modern tracks), then that means that there is a clear excess of grip, being tire grip, or downforce and/or power. If so, handling is also affected; why should be ignored? How can you compare the handling of anything if one of the parts is clearly off in a certain area(s)?
     
  2. Ari Antero

    Ari Antero Registered

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    No you should not risk or not, you are not Schumi, you should bee 5-20 sec slower depending how talented you are as racing driver, if it is realistic sim and not just a video game.
     
  3. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Yup. The last few sconds of performance doesn't come from "balls"/bravery. There is a certain point of the limits where anymore bravery won't get you anywhere further. There is a point where you can have all the bravery in the world, carry more speed into the corner and mid-corner, brake as late as you want, etc. and it won't be of any help, you'll just understeer or oversteer (or both) too much (or even off track), and at that point anymore bravery won't help you are already over-driving and passing the limits, yet somehow other top drivers can lap 4, 5, etc. seconds faster than you and you don't understand why. You have just as much bravery as any of the other drivers, if not more, and you are already all over the limits, how could the car physically go quicker??...

    This is the point where you, the driver, has to raise the limits of the car yourself. You manipulate the limits of the car in different ways with your steering, brake, and throttle inputs from the moment you touch the brakes until the moment you are finished your exit. This has all to do with skill, feel, and analyzing what the car needs in terms of input from you in order to manipulate and raise it's limits.

    At the real life F2000 racing school I worked at, raced, and briefly instructed at, lots of brave, "hot shot" drivers would get massive understeer with the F2000 during slow speed corners (the school F2000 had about a 70:30 % or so F:R brake bias, plus a generally softer and less "on edge" setup). They would just complain that the car can't go faster, too much understeer. My instructors would then just smile and say something like "You can corner just as fast, even faster, with no understeer. Your problem isn't the car, or the tyres, or the setup, or whatever, it's what you're doing with the car, it's all driver induced. Your problems can all be cured by how you drive the car. You need to pay attention with your brain to your braking and corner-entry technique. You are not balancing the car correctly in order to ALLOW the car to carry your desired mid-corner speed without understeer"...

    Then he would explain techniques on how to do things depending on the corner and the particular drivers problem. "Don't brake harder just brake later, brake harder initially but not any later brake harder and longer, hold more brake as you turn in, release the brake more as you turn in (to relieve the fronts and give them a chance to grip more), you're getting on the throttle too soon causing the rear to squat and grip too much and therefore causing understeer, you're braking too hard which slightly over-slows you and that leads to understeer giving the impression that you are at the limit but if you release your brake slightly earlier/more while you turn in then that will allow some rear rotation which will avoid the understeer you have been getting" etc. etc. etc.

    The bravery will get you far though, but then you hit a "wall" where anymore bravery won't do any good and it's up to you to make/manipulate the car in order to get any more speed/laptime out of it. The bravery does help more in real-life though compared to sims, of course, it's a mix of both.

    I saw guys all the time who thought they were so "pro" because they were all over the cars limits and clearly (in their mind) extracting the max out of the car, and they would kill all the other student drivers and flatter themselves because they just don't truly know what the car is capable of, laptime wise. They then assume they are near the max potential laptime just because they were hitting limits and getting oversteer, understeer, lockup, etc. Then the instructor would go and lap 3.5 seconds quicker (that's on a short 1 minute lap, probably equates to 6 or so seconds on a 1:45 lap) and then these guys would receive a reality-check and realize that there is so much more to getting the last 5 or 6 seconds than just being brave at braking as late as possible, carrying as much speed as possible in the corner, etc. You will just hit a wall and flatter yourself into thinking you are at the cars limits because you don't know how to raise those limits through skill/feel/analysis/technique. Unfortunately this happens in real-life a lot because people never have real top-level racing drivers to compare to. Top level as in top-level open-wheel drivers, not drivers like Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2014
  4. jpb1977

    jpb1977 Registered

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    Let's talk about an even more important issue... CUSTOM CAR SKINS! ;)

    I've downloaded the various ones that are out there, but only the car I drive keeps the custom skin. So then I made new cars using the custom skins, but now I have duplicate cars! If someone can point me in the right direction here, that would be great.

    Note - the Andretti Autosport cars by Boxer are unbelievable!!!

    jpb
     
  5. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    You seem to be answering 2 people as one. I have very few videos and mine aren't based on opinion, I just drive the cars and "spew" facts. EB does post opinion videos. My opinion of the DW12 is not crap, it's not a lie. It's an opinion you disagree with. Try to remain objective and calm down, you seem to be very invested in this argument.
    So you don't agree with my opinions- argue these points and tell me how they are "lies"
     
  6. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    No one knows who or what they're responding to anymore. I love it. xD
     
  7. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Spinelli just told you: lap times don't matter. It's a dumb way to compare games. Physics, surfaces, air, grip are just values. Forget about the times.
     
  8. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    How does downforce matter in second gear?
     
  9. Brettfan

    Brettfan Registered

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    The Road configuration,because it was Laguna Seca.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2014
  10. mrsmr2

    mrsmr2 Registered

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    Wow, the iRacing version must handle like Scalextric, or a train on a track :)
     
  11. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I just want to pop in and say I'd love to see the Indy Lights 2014 car in rFactor 2 :eek:.

    *runs*
     
  12. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Plus some ovals.
     
  13. Brettfan

    Brettfan Registered

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    In a Race,this naturally can be.But if you practice alone,it is astonishing easy,to hold the Dallara Indycar on the track in iRacing.For that reason sometimes i already thought that it is made nearly for Rookies. rFactor 2 is cheaper than iRacing,has AI and Open wheeler cars,that are more difficult to drive than the Dallara Indycar in iRacing,that are really a defiance also if you are driving alone.The Race Kart(100cc,28hp) in reality also was a defiance also when driving alone on the track,because it was oversteery.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2014
  14. Brettfan

    Brettfan Registered

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    Crashing or not crashing during a Race also depends on the rig someone has.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2014
  15. Nemesis44uk

    Nemesis44uk Registered

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    Well, I just wanted to say thanks to ISI for the Dallara DW12. I like it a lot. It reminds me of many fun hours on Indycar Racing 1 & 2 (Papyrus). I'm no expert, but it's fun.
     
  16. kro388th

    kro388th Registered

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    Fore sure!
    We were racing the DW's at Mid Ohio following the real racing ..Good stuff ! Oh also if you edit your vmods in the PLR you can set "fresettings" to 255 and it frees up all the garage menus to allow the defrent tire compounds in race/Q ..
     
  17. rongarz

    rongarz Registered

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    I'm also really enjoying the DW12 at Indy and on the road courses. I know my skills are at the novice end of the scale, so I was really surprised that I could make it around the track reasonably well. Of course, I come here to forum and see everyone complaining that it's too easy. If you pros want a real challenge, try driving the indy oval setup at Mid Ohio like I did until I figured out where to change the wing configuration.
     
  18. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    The only real problem is the braking distance for me, otherwise the insane rear grip is still there.
     
  19. Nemesis44uk

    Nemesis44uk Registered

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    Hey, thanks for the tip!
     

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