Do cockpits really rule the roost?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Krayzi, Mar 31, 2014.

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What's your preferred racing driving view?

  1. Cockpit

    155 vote(s)
    93.4%
  2. Roof cam

    6 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. Bumper cam

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. Chase

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Other

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  1. Krayzi

    Krayzi Registered

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    Hey everyone. In over 20 years of sim racing, I've always gone with roof view (or bumper view if necessary depending on sim), but, almost without thinking, made the switch to cockpit view when sim cockpits started getting better and I had the GPU to handle them. I'm just now starting to question that switch. Yes, cockpits are cool, perhaps I do feel a bit more immersed, but is it really worth the rather enormous percentage of screen real estate (even with triple monitors)?

    I've just done 20 laps with roof view, and while I'm still a couple tenths slower, it feels like I'm still adjusting to the different position (braking distances, input timings just a little off--that'll get better). With a minor FOV tweak, I can see just as much to the left/right, but way more of the track ahead and no silly roll cage in the way.

    So, should I stop this roof cam silly talk and go back to cockpit for serious (league) racing, or is roof cam worth a bit more of my practice time?
     
  2. Wishmaster

    Wishmaster Registered

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    I never tried something else than cockpit :)
     
  3. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    If your league allows the cam then go for whatever you feel like :)

    inb4 huge flame thread :p
     
  4. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    Forced cockpit view is wrong in some cases, What if the user has a physical cockpit with all his gauges etc outside of the sim, I even saw one set up with everything outside of the sim, So to force cockpit view would basically have the user seeing 2 cockpits, not realistic at all. Personally I drive open wheelers in cockpit view, but Tintops I drive with only the track on screen as my gauges, wheel, seat, everything is out of the sim, with a large screen or triples the view I see becomes the windscreen and anything else becomes unrealistic.

     
  5. RJames

    RJames Registered

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    For me personally i drove cockpit cam but for the reason of spacial awareness. Same as in my real car i know the dimensions and feel comfortable with that. The same goes for the sim car, if im in the cockpit i can see where my car is and that sort of becomes natural feeling and then gives me the confidence to be able to race side by side with others without the worry of misjudging and wrecking someone.

    I think also to bare in mind I do use tripple screens so that helps with the whole feeling.

    I do agree though if leagues allow multiple cam choices its up to the user, for me personally it doesn't bother me what others use as long as they feel comfortable as when everyone is comfortable the racing tends to be better.
     
  6. Robert Gödicke

    Robert Gödicke Registered

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    I am always driving in cockpit view. And aside from that, I will leave all graphical goodies activated, even if they will make you slower.

    I can remember the times back in GTR² when drivers found out that they could get rid of the sunflares, the raindrop effect on the windscreen and the rooster tails as well as tire smoke by dumbing down their graphics and replacing some common texture files. To me this is basically cheating, especially removing effects by altering some of the files.

    Driving in bonnet and roof cam is an advantage as well which will make you slightly faster (at least on single monitor setups) and gives you a little bit more overview while fighting for positions and when driving next to each other. In rFactor 1, forcing cockpit view was completely useless though because people who didn't want to lose their advantages from bonnet cam could simply edit their *.cam files (which wouldn't give a mismatch online) so that the cockpit cam was basically shifted to the bonnet or roof position they were used to. So it didn't change anything.

    I am a fan of forced cockpit view, but only if people can't find a way to cheat again.

    If the mod is set up pretty well, you could still lower the fov and adjust your seat height so you won't see anything from the ingame cockpit. Aside from that, if you build up a cockpit from a Clio, for example, and drive an Audi R18 in a sim, you would see a lot more than the other R18 drivers you are racing and are driving in cockpit view. So it would be an advantage again. ;)
     
  7. Prodigy

    Prodigy Registered

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    No cockpit cam = No realism
     
  8. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Then your view will be unrealistic as well as the camera point from which your view is spawning from will be rendering an image on your screen that is from a completely different location than where your in-game eye point is. The monitor is supposed to replicate the human being's eye. When you get in a real car, tintop or not, everything you see is obviously coming from your eyes, therefore the in-game camera point from where the image is rendered from must be positioned exactly where the in-game virtual driver's eyeball is (let's say exactly centered between the 2 eyes). Anything other than that and you are getting a false view. Regardless of how low or how high you sit in real-life relative to your monitor, regardless of whether you have your own gauges or not.

    There is only 1 correct viewpoint (in terms of realism), and that is from where the in-game virtual driver's eyeballs are (between them centered). Period.
     
  9. tjc

    tjc Registered

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    I don`t really do online, really only offline for me but I`m cockpit view all the way.

    I`d never drive any other view unless I had to for testing purposes...

    This is a sim... it simulates driving racing (and other) cars...

    When I jump in my car later I`ll go into the driving seat, I won`t drive from the front bumper or the roof (although trying could be interesting lol :p)

    Each to their own by all means but I really don`t see the point in driving a driving simulator from any other view than cockpit...

    The other views (IMO) are fantasy...
     
  10. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    I Repeat. Forced cockpit view is wrong in some cases, When a physical cockpit is used !

    This looks like bonnet cam to me.

     
  11. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Regardless if you would see a double cockpit or not, if you use anything other than the cockpit view then you are going to get the wrong perspective because the drivers head is not on the nose/bonnet/dash cam (for example). Unless you can force the virtual cockpit off but keep the camera position where the drivers head should be (something that i believe Base performance would have setup for their sim).

    [​IMG]

    No virtual cockpit rendered but the correct driver perspective remains.

    The same goes for the Base Simulators tin-top video example you gave. Only no tyres because the driver wouldn't be able to see them ofc, as well as no virtual bonnet because you have one physically in view.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2014
  12. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Correct DrR1pper, this is done in professional sims, the camera is placed on the driver's eye positions and the graphics which aren't needed are simply turned off*. no messing about with bumper cam's are other weird things, it is how it is, and the driver isn't going anywhere if you have a full cockpit, openwheeler, doesn't matter. No opinion, simple fact, no other option is even considered. Drivers even complain if they're eyeline is too high or low to what they're used to, let alone having them drive with a bumper cam :p

    *
    I believe gMotor based titles even have standard settings for this in an INI file somewhere :)

    PRC Steve, nope, camera positions should not change, just turn virtual cockpit model off.

    **
    Just to be clear, nothing in this post had anything to do with my opinion, merely fact and experience with these types of machines.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2014
  13. osella

    osella Registered

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    Definitely cockpit.
    If you use realistic FOV (usually quite low number) and move seat position closer to hood you usualy don't see much of virtual dashboard anyway so the view isn't blocked that much.


    FOV=70 [​IMG]

    FOV=40 [​IMG]


    FOV 70 or more is pretty unrealistic in most cases.
     
  14. smithaz

    smithaz Registered

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    I use bumper cam view for the reason PRC Steve stated and because you can't see very much in cockpit view. I reserve cockpit view for a future triple screen setup.

    Although, in karts, I do find it to be a disadvantage not to use cockpit view.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2014
  15. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Real pros run trackside camera.
     
  16. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    No no, real pro's use just ffb and a brief Braille track description ;)

    Cockpit for me. :)
     
  17. JGraf

    JGraf Registered

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    haven't found any real cars with driving controls outside the cockpit yet.
    ride horses, drive cars.
    no way i'm looking inside that horse for a steering wheel, but feel free to let us know.
     
  18. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    hood view, bumper and all that are faster than cockpit view. It's been proven time and again to be so. I use cockpit because I like all the shaking, head movement and seeing the real mirrors & gauges for the sake of immersion. I have been doing cockpit view only for a long time and it takes me so long to get up to speed with any other view I don't bother to try any more.

    I have heard arguments that non-cockpit view is not faster, but normally the argument is like this "I use hood view so I can see more and it's not faster than cockpit! But when I use cockpit I can't see anything and I am always a few 1/10's off on lap times." Yes, I have seen that exact argument before. The problem is, if you set up an online server for cockpit only, there will always be a contingent of people complaining and with rF2 right now, it is a small concession to have a few more on the grid.
     
  19. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    I haven't seen any cars with two steering wheels and 4 arms/hands or two dashboards/gauges. Cockpit view is absolutely fine by me but I disagree with it being FORCED as some have Physical Cockpits outside of the Sim.
    To me, in Tintops my wheel is here in my hands as is my dashboard, my screen is my windscreen, cockpit view and only track view is the same, only difference to me is my screen is filled with a load of stuff in the way instead of track.
    Open wheelers is a different story, I cannot drive without being in cockpit view, I love the 2 big tyres and the nose cone in view, but for me I still have to remove the wheel and arms in game and push the seat forwards.

    View attachment 12187
    View attachment 12188
     
  20. Paul_Ceglia

    Paul_Ceglia Registered

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    All I use is cock pit cam and I have tried the wheels only option with sus. in the PLR file while driving open wheelers and tin tops but 99% of the time its full cockpit.
     

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