To all rF2 modders: what is your background?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hexagramme, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    This is directed at all the modders who frequent this forum.

    I'm very interested in hearing what kind of background some of you have.

    What I mean is;
    How did you get into modding?
    Did you "just" sit down and learn by doing?
    Did you learn through education (university, courses etc.)?

    The reason I ask is because I might try and figure out a way for me to get into some of all this.
    I so want to learn how to build a track, it's quite a big dream of mine, but I don't know how to get into it.

    I'm looking for inspiration and a bit of guidance as to how I can go in the right direction.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Have you read Pleclairs first thread? Its a pretty nice and detailed tale of someone starting from scratch. Even if it would lack certain technicalities its still a good read on how this unfolds for a modding-noob.
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/13984-At-least-I-got-it-to-run-in-Dev-Mode-)

    And of course the 105 page Nords thread in the tracks forum for when you are really bored :)

    Needles to say that if Pleclair would do it all over now, he would prolly do it differently. sad that he aint around anymore.
     
  3. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Thank you so much for your reply. :) Def a good place to start!

    When you say "ain't around anymore"... you mean on the forums?
     
  4. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Oh yes, the forums lol. didn't mean it in any other way :)
     
  5. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Good!! lol my heart just sank for a moment there... :)
     
  6. RJames

    RJames Registered

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    As a new modder who's currently learning and building multiple items i'll let you in to what I know thus far and the experiences i've had. (Note, building from scratch and not converting).

    First of all, history and background. Before this i've never previously built or attempted to build anything 3D, I work in the world of 2D in design but 3D is a totally new level. The idea to pick up and get going actually come from having worked with some great rF1 modders in the past on another project and it always fascinated me about how they could reproduce these "mini worlds". Anyway the time come where I had a little time to have a go so did.

    Learning is the difficult part or shall I say finding the right thing to learn. Youtube is scattered with 101 ways of doing everything and the biggest issue I personally found thus far is following one tutorial then finding another where someone does something in a totally different method which can be confusing at first. I've also downloaded/bought just about every different piece of software able to build tracks at first in the easiest method but I learn't that it's not worth wasting the time looking for shortcuts and to actually start with max from the start and to take my time.

    I dived in early straight to track building, was determined that I could build some sort of track quick and get it into game no problems, what I found however was that by again trying to do this the results was poor and frustrating, stuff I thought in my head should be done by X/Y/Z actually was done another way again leading to more stress and starting over.

    Ok so the first part sounds negative, but don't let it be and don't aim too high first time out.

    What I have found is the easiest way to learn is to start small, learn to build a barrier, a tire wall, a marshals hut etc. Doing that will not only start to teach you the tools and what does what but you are able to build and finish them in relatively small time frames which is rewarding and a boost to your drive to do more. Remember at this stage your learning the tools not the building of a complete circuit, that will flow and eventually come. The more small items you build and the more you learn the easier building larger items is without the negative side effect of it "taking forever".

    Building something small will also help cover to number of topics within the build e.g. Basic Poly Modeling & Basic Texturing. Also you will learn just by the nature of learning about how to effectively use poly's which is essential when it comes to massive projects.

    I'm a bit of a scatty person so i'll have a go at anything so have been building various items from things on my desk to track side objects (of which remember you can use in future projects, so no harm in building your own library of objects). I'm even building car's now and already i've noticed what i've learn't from having a go at that has opened my mind to other ways of doing track side items, buildings and the track itself.

    I've actually just tonight re-opened and re-built a project I started out with which was a Crash Barrier. The first time i built it I loved it, it was so rewarding seeing something i've built actually look real however it was using lots of polys and actually poorly built but it looked good. I rebuilt it tonight using 1/6th of the number of polys of which are now alot neater but the outcome is exactly the same. It's just a game of trial and error.

    So as a inexperienced noob myself the key point's i would personally say at this point at:

    1. Start small, don't get ahead of yourself. It can be incredibly frustrating not being able to do something big which can have a negative effect on your drive to continue.
    2. Take your time, Rome was not built overnight. If you start getting frustrated - stop. Come back to it with a fresh mind.
    3. Set yourself achievable targets with items.
    4. Pick a object to build, look it up on Youtube to see if there is a guide. If there is watch it, check for more guides, watch them. Watch the process start to finish before picking up the tools. That way you will know when you start what your building and why and how. Watching a tutorial and just blindly following it you will not know why your doing something until its done.
    5. Try to find many reference photos for what you pick. It can make a world of difference having and good idea of how something looks rather than working from memory.
    6. Don't rush, ask questions and try to enjoy it. Asking questions can be a life saver and stop you going mad or from screwing up a project and having to start over. (major headache).
    7. Don't be afraid of building something really basic, it all adds to your knowledge and experience.

    As I said those are mine and those come from just picking up the software and jumping in highlighting some of the key points/issues and hurdles i've had to face.

    Also something i found very helpful was downloading random 3d models from the net, and simply looking at how they have built something. I found this massively helpful once i was on more complex builds.

    I wish you the best of luck, I for one hope to see more follow suit and have a go, what's the worst that can happen? you learn something new!
     
  7. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead

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    Excellent post RJames.
     
  8. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Wow! This was the kind of post I was hoping for. Thanks a lot mate! This actually gave me some courage in regard to maybe getting starting building tracks.
     
  9. Radar

    Radar Registered

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    Have to agree with Tuttle, excellent post RJ. Too many people who wish to get into Max panic and give up because they are taking on so much at once ie a whole track. Start small as RJ said, gosh you can even just create a rubbish bin, porta loo, something that can be used over an over.

    My background, I got into it because I like the challenge and the rewards afterwards.. I taught myself but then after that went and did a couple courses to further my skills.
     
  10. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    And while you're learning to build things up, don't forget to tear things apart to learn. MAS tool is your ticket!
     
  11. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    Nice, also i would recommend to focus on learning something new with each model, or maybe if you build two models that are identical in use of techniques, try to do things differendly on them to see what works better. from poly topology, UVW layouts, overlapping and the way they are placed on texture, smoothing groups and how to affect them with polygons, and for todays standarts - neccessary high polygon baked normal maps. After you are good with that bit, absolutellety new task is ahead of you and that is texturing, but because you said you have a 2D backgroud, this bit shoud be quite easier for you than it is for the others
     
  12. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    Now this is a nice thread. I thought I'd share my background too.

    I began modding software back in 1999 and mostly on the graphical side. It was not until F1 2002 that I really started modding more solidly and did so for various leagues I raced in. I learned to do things finding tutorials on the web but I didn't really stick to it. My main desire was to build a team that could someday go from modding to commercial and build our own games. Game Design and Development is something I've been passionate about since the mid 90s. Unfortunately due to my health and constant hospital stays, I had to leave school early so I never graduated. I decided to teach myself all that I felt I would need to know to achieve the goals I set forth for myself in life.

    MMG back then was just me, it was not until the end of 2006 that I met Raymond Schram who became the first full time member of MMG (MMG being the old modding group name of MAK-Corp). Throughout 2007 onwards the team grew with more members and we developed the more well known F1 2007 Mod for rFactor. It was with that mod that more of our commercial endeavors began.

    We've been through highs and lows but overall sticking to it and never quitting, I managed to develop a group that combines both modders and industry workers as well as modders turned industry workers through the work we've done and its been great fun working to achieve this.

    There is no real tutorial on running your own group, or trying to develop a company starting off from a modding background. If I had any tips or advise to people who want to start their own modding group, I would say... "run far, run fast!" LOL. Of course I'm joking, though it is not all fun and games. Being the manager of a group you have to be prepared to be hated by many, to be bashed and flamed and mistreated, to be screwed over by those you call friends, to never sleep right again due to not knowing what nightmares you will have to face when you wake up, not having a life, losing your sanity, dealing with childish people.

    Now you may say, why the blooming hell would I want to make a group if I have to look forward to all that??? Or you may be asking how the hell have I kept going??? Well, every job in life has its good and its bad. The good parts of running a mod group outweigh the bad for me. I've met some fantastic modders and industry workers from different game development companies. I've developed acquaintances and friendships I am thankful to have been given the opportunity to develop. I've worked with many developers through providing things they need via our company services, and I've helped a number of modders with no diploma's to get jobs in their field of the industry they would not have gotten otherwise. I still have to deal with headaches at times, or people who just want to be difficult, but tell me a job where you don't? The good for me outweigh the bad, though this doesn't mean it would be the same for everyone.

    As the Founder/Owner of the group, everything falls upon my shoulders to not only uphold the integrity of the group, but also the integrity and reputation of each member who is in the group. In the past with less experience, it was easy to fall into the excitement of new guys coming into the group or new content being made, and this sort of bit us in the behind a little bit. I'm a person who takes joy in helping people but in most cases in the past its caused me problems. Where people would bring their mods into the group and then give up on them or disappear and the group would be blamed for that. That is a common thing I faced until I said no more.

    If someone is looking to develop a team, then I would recommend the below tips/advise,

    * Know where you want to go, what you want your group to achieve in the long term from the beginning.
    * Always respect your staff, they are volunteers and without them, you have nothing, no group, no success, no future.
    * Don't unveil your work in development too soon. Wait until 80% is done and then release news. Releasing too early leaves you in the firing line when things go wrong.
    * Always strive for quality, not quantity. A lot of groups strive for quantity thinking it will bring them fame sooner, that doesn't happen.
    * Always be truthful with your staff, lying gets you nowhere and as a true manager, you should not have secrets from your staff.
    * Don't let your personal life affect your work or your group members, keep your personal life drama's to yourself and away from the work place.
    * Always ensure those who work in your group sign confidentiality and rights agreements. This saves you a lot of hassle from people stealing your hard work in the future.

    If someone is looking to be a modder, then what I would recommend is,

    * Ensure you are dedicated and passionate about what you want to do in the modding world. It is not easy, you will face hardships and you will certainly not get anywhere if you quit or think of quitting every time it gets tough.
    * Don't have an ego, egoists die in the modding world or remain loners who achieve relatively nothing.
    * Don't try to be a loner, join a group where you can work in a team environment and share in the success of the entire group. A lot of modders have an ego and try to do everything themselves and don't like being in a team environment, you can only do so much on your own, in a group, you can achieve so much more.
    * Be respectful to those who try to help you or provide constructive criticism. Take it on the chin and see it as an opportunity to improve to methods you don't know. It will only make you better.
    * Don't let your own personal drama's affect the way you work with others. No one likes to be affected by someone else's drama's and its a sure fire way to drive people away from you.
    * DO NOT STEAL OR CONVERT OTHERS WORK! I can't stress this enough. Its ok if your using it privately to learn and have no intention of releasing, but if you want to make something to release, make sure its made from scratch or that you have the appropriate permissions if its not made from scratch.

    Modding is not about the "Look what I made" or the "Look at MY thing", its about working together with other modders and providing the community with more and more great content to be enjoyed. Unfortunately in the modding world currently there is a lot of egoists who will go it alone, will not share knowledge, will talk badly of others just because they have that mentality. Modding is about being part of a community, one that supplies content to others in the community. This community needs to learn to work more together rather than so much apart. If you can't work with others, you may as well not start modding at all, unless your an egoist. Of course when it comes to track making, that genre of modding can see modders work on their own if they know how to perform all the parts. It would still be easier in a group, but soloing in track modding is possible. Its more so the vehicle mods where its not that good to be alone.

    If you want to learn something, don't give up when it gets tough, giving up gets you nowhere. Actually, where it gets you is to a place a number of years down the road with the thought of "what might have been". Keep at it, keep trying, watch tutorials, ask groups, work with groups, its your best way to learn and expand. But don't use them to learn and then piss off and do your own thing, that is disrespectful and also a very big reason why so many don't share knowledge nowadays. Be respectful and appreciate the knowledge you've been given and remain with the group and help make more great content.

    At the end of the day, each person will do what they want, but in my years I've seen the great things a group together can do compared to things an individual can do. It never pays to be alone, so finding a group that will help you, that you can work well with should be your top priority in my personal opinion.

    Hopefully if more and more people get the desire to learn, there can be more and more talented people working in the community to develop great content for everyone to enjoy.

    That's my two cents.
     
  13. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    And those were some fine cents indeed! Very very fine reply, very informative and personal. Thank you very much.
    Things are starting to make a bit more sense to me now.

    Thank you all so far for providing some great insights.
     
  14. Johannes Rojola

    Johannes Rojola Registered

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    I don't consider myself as complete rF modder as I have only released few tracks for rF1, not cars (yet). This post includes pictures to keep it more interesting :D

    I started modding with NASCAR Racing 1 back in the mid 90s. Don't really know why, I just didn't have anything else to do and I had this urge to "fix" the games I was playing to my own liking. I made 1964 season for the game but it was never released as I didn't have Internet :D I also modded Wolfenstein 3D, Civilization II, Monster Truck Madness, Stunts, Interstate '76 and many others...

    Then NASCAR Racing 2 (and subsequently 1999) was released and I got really into sim modding. I made new period correct car sets from NASCAR seasons 1964, 1984, 1988 and 1990 which included not just skins but new car meshes, menus and stuff. Many of the stuff got featured at Theuspits and other known NASCAR sim sites at that time. http://www.thenorwaypits.com/2002_01/fbody/nascar/n@50dnld.html

    [​IMG]

    Then Grand Prix Legends and NASCAR Racing 3 was released but I did not have suitable computer to run those games so I sort of quit modding altogether. I moved into other game development and started working with RPG Maker 2000 and made some small games with it. Back in the day there was no "indie game scene" so that did not lead nowhere.

    Then in 2002 I went into art school and quit playing with games. Started doing paintings and lived off by selling some of those. I thought I was completely done with previous nerd-life. I started to do some animations and music. Occasionally I did turn some laps in NASCAR Racing 2003, that was all I had interest for.

    [​IMG]

    In I 2006 went to another art school and did some music stuff to earn some money. In the new art school I was again forced to go back to games stuff. At one school course I begun to learn some 3D modeling and texturing. Software I used was 3D Studio Max. Some how I liked it and learnt more by my own. And just by accident, I found rFactor1 at local game shop. I did not know anything about the game apart from what was written on the box. So I bought it as it was not very expensive.



    I played rF1 a lot and downloaded all possible mods for it. As late as 2010 I came across Bob's Track Builder, and released few mediocre tracks with it. Again, I did something that I felt was missing from the game and I had a lot fun at driving on my own tracks.



    After that I learned some more 3D stuff I moved to car modding for rF1. I have lots of stuff for rF1 that I made but nothing was never released and quite likely never will. I don't have urge to finish stuff with top most quality when I am just doing it for me.

    Then rFactor2 was released and I thought now I can finally begin to do good stuff for me and also for other players. I had one rF2 exclusive project going well but then I lost my interest soon as I found out how unfinished rF2 really was from modding stand point.

    [​IMG]

    Little later opportunity came and we formed commercial Unity 3D game project with friends. Now I could finally put my skills in real use and I have been there now over a year. And if that's not enough, I also started my personal game project last summer. A car simulator what I think a car simulator should be. By going into game development, I had to learn Blender (because it is free) and now I have completely ditched 3DS Max.



    Seems like that's it for me when it comes to modding, don't have time for it anymore. Also it is too much to ask to go back to 3DS Max, as it has so many flaws compared to Blender but I am not going into that. rF1 was nice learning tool, I'll be always thankful of that game for the inspiration it gave.

    ------

    Everything I have learned throughout the years has been because my urge to learn new things just by doing. Simple as that. Sure at many occasions the inspiration for learning new has come from outside where somebody has pointed out new tools or opportunities which I did not know beforehand. Or the 3D class at school which pointed out that 3D it is not *that* hard to do.

    It is clear that if you don't have motivation to learn, or you are not curious person in general you won't learn anything useful. However too much interest and curiousness can be curse like it has been for me, I have went from graphic design to fine arts to 3D to music to film acting to writing to stage acting to games to scripting. I have never stayed anywhere so long to get good enough (well enough compared to where, I don't know). Maybe some day I find my "thing" and stick to it. Quite likely not.

    So if you are really interested and motivated by something, stick to it. Modding is not that hard if you have good amount of interest and time for it. If I'd start now, I would start with car modding. Learning basics of 3D modeling and texturing is a lot easier with a car than with track. Track modeling is just massive undertaking, and definitely is not suitable for first project. Good idea is to learn good workflow and skills for modeling and texturing, before trying to get those things working in-game. Because with rF2 that is completely another thing to learn.



    ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2014
  15. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    Good read. :)
     
  16. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Superb read mate, nice show'n'tell and inspirational story too. Thank you!
     
  17. Radar

    Radar Registered

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    Awesome read Petros. Thank you to youself and others here for the read.
     
  18. Eddy

    Eddy Registered

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    some great reading in here, thanks for starting this thread Hexagramme and thank all people who posted their mod life stories.
     
  19. slopoke62

    slopoke62 Registered

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    Johannes,

    Interesting video. Mind lyric translation to English?
     

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