To drive Car in rFactor2 make you can drive whatever top five sim.

In rFactor2
I begin practice with AI 75% Corvette C6.R. set 2 laps in every official track.
It's take me 3 weeks to see back of AI!!!!

After 2 month I can set AI 80-85% set 5 laps depend on track.
For AI setting above 85% I can't follow AI C6.R. It's too fast for me

Then I go to iRacing.
I spend time 2 weeks now I got B license in iRacing that mean I can race with Corvette c6.R. but the time to race too long for me 45 min to 70min. I prefer qualify and Time trial.

For every race about 20 racers I can finished average 13-15 position that not bad if
I compare Qualify time to another racer I'm slower than 18 persons 0.2-7 sec per laps depend on track. There are only 2 persons that I faster than them
because of I use the way to control car from rFactor2.

Every same car in rFactor2 compare with iRacing.(Skip2000,C6.R).

rFactor2 have more sensitive in every input than iRacing. Every small input
whatever break gas make difference output that you can see but in iRacing small
input you can't see it.

This mean you can drive every car in iRacing no loss control, offtrack after
practice with rFactor2 setting AI only 80-85%!!!!.

Thank you rFactor2.

 

rF2 deffinetly teaches you alot of techniques and driving styles if you put time into learning how each of the cars need to be driven.
If you are unclear why cant you keep the car on track or why are you way too slow for example compaired to AI, just read the discription of the car from ISI site and I quarantee that you become better at it.
Also car setup has a huge value in rF2, which also demands one to learn how to setup a car, which for sim racer is a necessity.

I know I have become a much better driver because of rF2 and its small margin for error.

 

I suspect that RealRoad plays a big part as well. It forces you to learn the line and stay on it. You get off line, and you lose so much time. Other sims, where grip is pretty much constant across the whole surface, do not reward you for staying in the groove (or punish you for going off line; depending on your state of mind ).

 

A big part of it is the feedback that the car gives you- through getting off the realroad line, through hearing the tires, through the FFB and seeing what the car is doing. In no other game could I so clearly understand what the car is doing and where I am losing time just by what the car is telling me- most of the time I don't need Motec to tell me where I am losing time or why. I can set the car up by what I sense in the car under me.

rF2 is a lot more responsive to control inputs and the cars behave as I would expect from reading about car behaviors in the Carroll Smith books and other books I have read. Before in other sims I trusted that Smith was right but I could not feel it a lot of the times. There is a disconnect between the car and me with older sims. But in rF2 I feel the connection between me, the car and road.

 

'm not sure whether I get it explained but I think rf2 is something like to drive low-profile tires on a standard vehicle which is much more comfortable with standard street tires.

The one is very dim and vague while the other variant is much rougher, more direct while the rest in relation to rf2 comes from the interpretation of the dynamic forces to the steering wheel which not all of are truly real.

It conveys very well what the virtual vehicle does but it does not reflect entirely the reality which also not conveys every grain of sand on the road to your steering wheel or pants.

The super sensitive inputs in some cases are also not much real. The kinematic calculations may be correct but the overall feeling is not real.

If one needs motec as a driver to understand what's going on, there is something wrong with the feeling might distort understanding vehicle dynamics.

I like it but I do not see it as real replica.

The real replica could be boring with only a steering wheel in front of us. To convey the kinematic and dynamic of the virtual vehicle in detail helps to understand the simulation but does not reflect the real feelings and thus making the control of the virtual illustration sensitive and more challenging.

The result- everything else does not go this route or is as detailed as rf2 is easier to control but that not means it is wrong why it is easier to controle.

 

An accomplishment for myself is beating the AI in the ISI C6R at Silverstone with no aids, 10 lap race, and 100% difficulty. I am SO close to doing so and can lap 2:04's but every so often I just lose the back end and throw it all away. This is a huge challenge to me, and someone who only races offline, I question if I reach this personal milestone do I qualify myself for online racing? I've been using this combo to train myself and it's proved very challenging to see the least. Do I suck?

 

Motec is a tool for real life. If a real (professional) driver and team uses Motec to help understand what the car is doing, I don't see why 'needing' motec in a sim means the sim isn't conveying the correct feeling. Outside of Motec specifically, telemetry is used in a large number of racing series to help drivers see where they can improve and help engineers tune the car behaviour.

But I agree that the wheel tells you more in rF2 than it would in real life, and this is necessary for 99% of consumer hardware (which only provides FFB through the wheel) so that overall the driving doesn't become too difficult. So 'through the wheel' becomes easier than real life, because a completely realistic wheel behaviour would make driving a sim harder than reality, where you have so much more than the wheel to help you feel what's happening. And they still use telemetry

 

I think this due to ffb setup. rFactor 2 has the potential to feed you realistic ffb sensations (negleting the unrealistic strength of the forces unless you have a bodnar wheel for example) but most people have these realistic ffb sensations numbed out by ffb clipping issues ingame and how the devs have setup the default ingame ffb multiplier (1.0) has a part to play in this (but i understand why they have set it up like so). The default rf2 ingame ffb multiplier of 1.0 will cause you ffb clipping in the corners and this severely affects the realistic ffb feel/information that rfactor 2 can/does deliver. The benefit of increasing the ingame ffb multiplier is that it makes low end forces feel stronger (necessary for mainstream wheels) so that people don't complain that they can't feel any strength in the wheel forces (which they already do with rf2 vs other concurrent racing titles....so imagine the amount of clipping or artificial compromises that other titles are making to avoid such potential complaints!). When the ffb is clipping (as it does for everyone who uses the default "1.0" ingame ffb multiplier) it gives the sensation that rfactor 2 is feeding you overpoweringly additional forces (that stop you from feeling the car properly in situations that cause clipping, i.e. corners, whether you realise it or not) as if it's trying to simulate the g-forces on your body to account for the lack of it in the sim. When in fact it is a simple ffb setup problem causing this perceived "canned" sensation.

I wrote a detailed piece about this here (post #141): http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17796-Take-a-Bow-ISI/page8

 

I can tell you. Yes I know you love the tool and I agree that it is in general an ingenious tool for such as data adjustment, monitoring and optimization but a driver should not need it to understand the car - he should feel it. If he does not feel it, motec also does not help much. The engineer yes, to understand what the car and the driver does.

In relation to a simulation this means the incorrect or falsified reality might makes it necessary to use such a tool as a driver because the mediated emotion may not the reality corresponds.

edit: I do not say it is useless only if it is the prerequisite for driving in general something's wrong, and in case of a simulation it does not necessarily mean it's faulty but it is not real what by the conditional options in turn seems to be normal which in turn means it's faulty when speaking from simulating of reality.

This is not only related to rf2 because it is in my eyes still the best of any faulty driving simulation of reality

Seriously, of course it can not reflect the reality with only a steering wheel, also motion elements can not yet completely replace these, thus the reality is distorted and it does not change with motec.

 

Oh dear, you never made serious (virtual or real) racing!
You never really understood what for example Tim and others said about the FFB in rF2.
You are making claimes about things you don´t really understand!
There are several motec-threads where you can inform yourself.
Don´t you promised one day to be quiet? Or was it only for this particular thread?

 

I think this tought (be good in rf2 will be good at any sim) is wrong. In fact, rf2 coulb make me slower in arcade games (or not so good sim) since i would be careful in throttle when people used to whatever other game doesn´t fear to spin. Or doesn´t fear to flatspot tires or lose ideal line with no grip penalty.

 

I have a smile for you and i'm glad to know such a acknowledged person as you. I really learned much from you personally and all the constructive messages you leaved in this forum. I'm sure many others are happy as well.

 

I think you've already reached the exact milestone I reached when I went online.
No one judges you by your speed - only by your sportsmanship and your will to improve (and to fight ).

As for making errors - practice makes perfect, as they say
It's all about concentration and like muscles it's something you can practice. Formula one drivers keep practicing it all the time. Usually when we spin out, it's because we did something, we well knew not to do, but we just weren't paying attention.

I think 10-lap race is the most important barrier to break. 3-5 laps without a mistake can just happen, but doing 10 without a mistake is no coincidence. It indicates you're capable of maintaining your concentration and simply do the right thing every single corner. Once you're capable of running 3-4 such 10-lap races in a row, without mistakes, you're almost ready for endurance racing (you have what it takes, you just need to get used to them ).

It helps to:
- think in advance - don't just go in and see what happens - anticipation usually saves you from a nasty surprise
- focus on things you have influence on, not on those that are beyond your control - if you think of lap times you may forget to think about corners. If you think about corners, lap times will be there Also, don't think of what happened, think of what comes next. I find it's the most important thing for night racing - always focus on next corner and only occasionally (once in few laps) verify your strategy.

Agreed.

I usually don't do that myself, but I can recommend these descriptions to those who struggle with given car.
The technique I've adopted for C6R is pretty much what description says - do less trailbraking, carry more speed, apply throttle progressively. Doing this I can do long stints.

 

I do not agree on FFB telling me anything more than in real life. How do you know that you are near the limit when it is raining in real life? The huge difference in grip can only be perceived by the dramatical drop of FFB. As long as the wheels do not lose overall grip, your butt will not tell the difference from if it was dry conditions at same speed. That's why I love rF2 because it's FFB makes me feel the car the same that when I drive areal car. I don't drive a race car but I enjoy driving and I try to push the car a little when driving a twisty road (within a reasonable margin of safety to avoid an accident). It is my eyes and my hands that are perceiving the most. G's are nice to have, especially to have a better perspective of tire load changes caused by bumpiness of the road. However it's effect in the front axle is perceived through the wheel. Probably checking that you have lost the rear is what can be better be perceived and anticipated in real life
One situation where it is very graphical that FFB I essential is where there is the typical "hole" in the road provoked by too many trucks driving on it. If you put one wheel into the hole, your instinct and experience tells you to suddenly reduce applied force and let the wheel follow it's best path before rectifying it's position after passing the hole.

enviado mediante tapatalk

 

At current stage motec is almost useless in all VIDEOGAMES. Most of time you have not enough information about geometries (motion ratio, etc...) or UNFINISHED stuff (like the so praised tyre engine), surely most people will come out saying that's not true and bla bla bla, but i have my backgrounds and knowledge to lead me to this conclusion. You can still archive something but it is a rough conclusion.

 

I've long time not dealt with software in this area and I can say nothing about it in detail but that the tires seem not fully developed is almost clear to me, I can feel that without motec. Maybe there are also distorted impressions but then I'd have to seriously mislead. Not impossible but unlikely Nonetheless I like it and hope it will be completed very soon because I can see how it could be if it is even finished.

 

That's the problem. There is hope for the tyre engine (nothing is guarantee though) but for missing information i'm hopeless and you cannot do properly setup tweaks by using telemetry if information are not complete.

 

Understand, but I have time and even if I wish it happened much earlier, the hope dies last.

 

In most cases you feel grip and what the car is doing/what it's about to do/what it wants to do through your body and car around you (aka seat of the pants) much before you feel anything through the real-life steering wheel. If I had to wait for my real-life steering wheel to send me FFB information then I would probably not be alive right now to type this, I'd either be dead from a crash or dead from starvation from loosing all my money because I had to pay the owners for repair costs from crashing too many times. FFB feeling through your hands is felt much later than "seat of the pants", another reason why having a "pure real-life" steering FFB philosophy with no other information being transmitted is the wrong way to do it because if you were to race a real car the same way (with no seat of the pants feel, just the steering FFB and some visual) then everyone would be crashing and spinning and complaining that things are too hard in real-life, like they do in so many sims.

 

Basically correct yes. Where it is felt more on the steering wheel is when the vehicle pushes over the front axle as for example, understeery cars or with uneven load distribution where more the front is under load but everything that comes from the rear you can feel in the first on body.

Also the drive makes a difference, front drive more on steering wheel - rear drive more on the body, apart from general movements acting on the body, no matter what drive, but that does not means the steering wheel is dead as for example, when load changes with changing direction "counterforces".


However, I've driven many vehicles but I never really paid attention because it happens instinctively but I am also of the opinion we have more information in the ffb than in reality.