ISI can you tell me why mirrors cost 40 fps?!(video inside)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTClub_wajdi, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

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    yes
     
  2. alpha-bravo

    alpha-bravo Registered

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    coops you are a triple screen user. How you manage the mirror settings ?
    Which FOV you use? I ask because I use a FOV around 22 - 24 as a result of this FOV I have "pixelmonster" car's in my mirror. Some car's don't allow to correct the angle and or FOV of the mirrors ?
    As a nvidia SLI user I can say mirrors on or off made only a little difference on my system. Same is with virtual mirror on off.
    I think for very low FOV we need a higher resolution in the mirrors. Maybe as a car option ? It should be made no big difference in terms of FPS because of the low FOV other parts have not to be rendered. (I'm no expert with gfx stuff so maybe there are good reasons and I'm wrong)
     
  3. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    I noticed this issue quite a bit when running SLI GTX 480 with only 1.5GB each I think but cant remember. Would have perfect smooth frames no matter how many cars but some tracks would just crawl with mirrors on, I put it down to the lower GPU memory and just dealt with it. Since I got a Titan this obviously has not been an issue but I still run into the 32bit limitation on some tracks with too many AI. It never uses my full 32GB of system ram or 6GB of vram though there is a threshold where a track simply wont load at all on max settings at 2560x1440.

    Guys using high AA rates and high resolutions so same as mine or any triple screen setup will basically have great rendering until they run into the vram or system ram limits. Either this is you have used it all up by not having enough or got into the 32bit limitation that still plagues most software even in 2014 where it cant address more then 4GB of ram. The thing with ram is the total amount isnt important its only an issue when you either run out or cant address any more, it will either go into drive cache or simply fail to load as in RF2.

    The mirrors I noticed ate up a fair chunk of vram when enabled and so disabling these when on my gtx480's was my best option. Made racing a little tricky kind of like go kart racing where you cant see anyone behind and just drive your a$% off hoping to be fast enough so no one makes a move.

    In terms of AC what I noticed with their mirrors is they are actually just using the Cube reflection settings and are actually the same reflections as you see on other shiny objects. Lower the settings here in resolution or rate and the mirrors will either refresh at lower rates or be lower res.

    This has no effect on performance in car as the reflections are already being rendered and I guess they have done it in quite a funky and clever way where all reflections even on opponents cars have little effect on performance just like the mirrors on your own car. Though even with the titan the cube resolution at max is generally the biggest killer or at least it was on the earlier builds where the latest has a addressed this somewhat and has less hit. I guess they needed some optimization to deal with reflections on other cars but still total AI number will need to be much lower then what we can get in RF2 (settings depending)

    So the approach ISI use for mirrors as Tim says wont cost you any performance when they aren't being rendered so this isnt a bad thing. But driving with others on track without mirrors is a little tricky. Though in RF2 having one mirror rendered seems to have the same effect as if viewing all 3 plus 3 virutals so its not how many mirrors are rendered its once you enable them you get the hit no matter what.

    If you have a big enough GPU it wont have any effect and I tried disabling all culling and drawing distance to 2km in mirrors and it still didnt effect my Titan.
     
  4. mrsmr2

    mrsmr2 Registered

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    7850 (OC) user here and I've never been able to run with mirrors on. The frame rate drop is significant but, more importantly, the game feels far less smooth with them on (even if I'm still getting frame rates > 80 fps).

    I use the position display to work out the proximity of other cars.
     
  5. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    If you're having problems with smoothness, try playing with various sync options.

    Smoothness problems are often caused by CPU not keeping up with GPU. Personally, I'm using "video" sync option, as this is the one that adds physical synchronization between GPU and CPU.
    Some people are a bit paranoid about input lags and may advise different option, but I think low lag is worthless if you don't have stability in the first place.
     
  6. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I'm glad that I'm not the only one having this issues! a 30 0r 40 fps or even 50fps in some case is unacceptable for me and ISI have to find a solution for these mirrors fps's eater!
     
  7. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    You're unfamiliar with the fanboy mindset??
     
  8. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    :)
     
  9. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    Good point.

    Trying to find a pattern is the costructive way to discuss an issue.

    By my side, as i wrote above, i have minmal fps drop (about 5 more fps with mirrors off) and i dont use any sync option (i have a CRT monitor, with zero tearing)
     
  10. Maug

    Maug Registered

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    Here's a few links of threads opened in the right section in a correct and respectfull manner, properly formulated without any stupid answer/troll:
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17988-rFactor-wont-start
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/18055-RF2-FPS-Drop-Reboot-Problem
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17997-Performance-Wiki
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/17856-CPU-Usage-Ahtlon-II-x3-445-3-1ghz-slowmotion-issue

    Do i need to carry on?

    Maybe people troll you because of how you behave.
     
  11. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    :rolleyes:
     
  12. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Back on topic....:p


    Would it be a silly thing of me to suggest we would get a mirror option(set) in-game just like shadows work?

    I mean, i'm struggling anyways with my system but have to use mirrors. However, I just need them to check if 'anything' is there. that anything does not have to be a fully rendered track+car+smoke+flames. I would be very happy to see just a shadow of a car or whatever.
    Again, I (we) just need the info, not the full story. so I would love to reduce mirror settings, even something fake like we have with the temp-car.

    And before peeps go mental because-not-realistic, don't use it then :p

    One of rf2's strong points is the many options we get. and the fps drops are significant enough to justify additional options for users.
     
  13. Drathuu

    Drathuu Registered

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    Firstly, depends on the track author;.... If they tag all objects as render in mirrors then all objects behind will need to be rendered (hence you pretty much rendering your entire rear view in a smaller viewport twice) 2 x hit. If the track is authored properly then not all objects are set to render in rear mirrors (hence cutting down the overhead) also the detail level of the objects ideally would be less (although im not sure if the sim can flag this .. ie only low poly version of object in rear mirrors) hence cutting overhead further.

    When you switch the mirrors on its starts rendering a rear view.. so it fully calculates the view independant of the number of mirrors.. (hence the hit).

    So it comes down to the track modeller in the first instance to build the track and objects and assign them correctly .. I find myself the ISI tracks i get about a 5% hit with mirrors (or less) so i see no issues... Nvidia 760 4gb. I would pretty much be looking at the track and/or mod authors.

    The only other question is potentially video ram.. What card ? If the track has massive high res textures and your then rendering a heap more.. you maybe running out of vram? It doesnt look like you have a bad card though from your video.. so i doubt thats it.. but worth asking if its maybe 1gb card and track has massive textures?

    If it does it on ISI tracks, or well built optimised tracks then it maybe other issues (as no one in my league) even on some really crappy pc's get a 50% hit.
     
  14. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Isn't there an option to have all cars show in the mirrors with only their lowest LOD mesh? That would probably help as well :)
     
  15. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    I only had a 10fps drop with BT20 @Brianza

    No Mirrors = 65fps avg
    Mirrors On = 55fps avg (5 mirrors,3 virtual and 2 sidepods)
    This was whilst driving not stood still.

    ATI HD6970
     
  16. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    That may be correct but is it ok?

    Imo when it has such heavy hits on people's systems, I don't think relying on 'proper' track making is good enough. how many modders will get this right? how many even know or care?

    If not many, the issue remains and only ISI tracks.......not good enough i'm afraid. we need to be able to have more influence on this ourselves I think.
     
  17. coops

    coops Banned

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    I loose about 3/5 FPS with mirrors.
     
  18. Ricknau

    Ricknau Registered

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    Once again I think wistfully of that old dinosaur GPL with about 10 check boxes for mirror options. :rolleyes:
     
  19. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    Options for mirrors details would be great, first level can be lowest LOD for car + simplified road (with just horizon/sky). That will probably saved lot of computing...
     
  20. DA-DIGGA

    DA-DIGGA Registered

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    I have also test with no mirrors ... here my result

    note.. all settings on max..2 Rounds with Clio-LochDrummond Benchmark (GPU - AMD 7970GHZ)

    mirrors on
    Avg: 44.192 - Min: 37 - Max: 53

    mirrors off
    Avg: 61.539 - Min: 53 - Max: 74

    ISI .. why so a huge fps boost?
     

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