How many laps do you give it before deciding it doesn't have enough grip? I started driving properly, carrying more speed while cornering to get back on throttle much later, when I started accepting that mid-corner grip is not supposed to be there at the start of a session.
I know different people feel things differently but you have a car that's 'extremely loose in the rear' and your solution is whack the rear arb up, then you say about the aero grip being 'pushy' and your solution is to reduce the front wing (dam)?
Something like 50 laps total, in approximately 4-8 lap stints, on Silverstone; taking the runs with semi-warmed tires (2+ laps) and tread on the track as a measure. The settings I posted made the car more sedate at all the twitchy points and much more fun for me to drive. Do you find its default handling with the rear anti-roll bar set at 71 lbs/in good? It just felt real unbalanced to me, even accepting how much power its got...
The default GTR rear arb is so low that I get little/no throttle steer feel and when it goes over the edge it's carrying so much momentum as to be hard to recover. Raising it up a notch to 243 lbs/in, still quite below the front arb setting, made the car's steering easier for me to modulate on tight corners. My description of the front aero grip as 'pushy' was a bad choice of words. It's not that it pushes straight too much, but rather that it feels like there's too much front grip with the front air dam set to 3 on high-speed corners in comparison to the rear - making the steering input feel too sensitive and spins easy. I've clarified the post. A front air dam setting of 1 makes the car more steady at speed, although a setting of 2 could be the better compromise. Do you find the default settings for rear arb and front air dam on the GTR good? The car doesn't feel too twitchy?
No, not really. Not for me at least. When I work with GTR I only seek raw performance and they way to get the best from the tyres. No need for me to seek stability becasue it is already stable for me. However like you said 2 on the front air dam is better if you want the car to behave a bit more. Main issue with the GTR is the way it uses the fronts. It has great amount of corner entry and mid corner grip, that makes it really easy overdrive the car and it really messes up the car after few laps.
On your own or with other cars? The rubber builds up pretty fast with 25 AI. I don't mind trying your ARB setting just to see.
With rubber build up from 11 to 15 cars in a long practice session. I'd be interested in hearing if the rear ARB setting makes a noticeable difference for you. It's just a notch or two up and still substantially less than the front ARB, in an attempt to neutralize handling.
Agree entirely. There is "more" camber than what there "really" is. Probably tied to the bug in the known issues section (I'd still like a more detailed explanation on it) - they say it would cause tire pressure to not have an entirely proper effect, but at the same time an issue with the tire is not just tire pressure related (unless we are physically not keeping pressure which obviously we do), a whole host of things can alter how your tire is working. rF2 doesn't feel like a lack of grip as in ice, but rather silly camber - the tires don't really "do work" as a unit, the contact patch feels much smaller than what it should be to the point I describe it as having 4 rubber balls for tires rather than actual tires. Historic cars have always driven well in rF2, which further goes to support that. The thing is though, the setups are supposedly race / baseline setups run in the actual car - if so (and I believe it) the values are actually spot on. It's a flaw that you can't really deny at that point, that ISI have not denied but the zealots have. If the setups are indeed real there is indeed a flaw that does explain it nearly entirely, it is a trait of rF2 and it does explain the handling issues that ARE there just as they are in any other sim. Doesn't mean it's undrivable, but it does mean it's not entirely correct. Hell, I prefer the Howstons with the default setup even though I can make one that is "nicer" to drive. It's just more fun to drive for me. At the same time, it's also still an issue I would like to see fixed because it is, well, an issue. Someone should dig up the Morgan Morand C6R setup thread. I remember that one as being "interesting" with some guy harking on how the setup was entirely broken from a "IRL" standpoint. What would also be interesting (and quite smart of ISI to do) would be to include community setups or alternative setups going forward, would be interesting to see how the comments change from people who aren't doing their own setups. That and better FFB setup would go a long way to putting a bandaid on it, FFB was the biggest one for me in terms of improving things. That said, I'll keep calling the tires rubber balls until it improves.
So, I put 25 of the damn things on Palm Beach, registered a sad 1:15:9 after a few laps on the default setup. I tried raising the rear ARB by 2, and then 3 clicks (different units than you). Did at least 10 laps. I felt that the car was more stable over bumps in both acceleration and deceleration situations, but also that it fought my inputs. I never got used to it and also never beat my lap time. More predictable, more planted, not as fast. Went back to default and tried lowering the rear camber to the maximum possible. Similar effect to your ARB setting, but a bit more predictable for me. Got a 1:15:3 pretty quickly. Went back to default, got a 1:15:1. Tried your higher ARB again, had a hard time doing clean laps and judging turns, also correcting mid-corner was harder for me. Did not match the other lap times. I wasn't expecting anything, just trying stuff out. The default setup is the one that felt free, with which I knew what I was doing wrong instantly and I could adjust my driving by little increments. The changes I made to the car made it a bit reticent to follow my orders, so it was harder for me to reach the "limit". With the default setup, I could also trailbrake really late and experiment without fear. When I used to play with a controller on consoles, I always tried to have a stable setup that felt safe, but like many pro drivers say, if your car is stable, it's probably not very fast. With these dangerous setups and a steering wheel, I understand what they mean now. You have to work a bit harder, because the car lets you do whatever you want, but it feels like you can go faster if you take the time. Was fun. I hate that track, though. Can't be fast at all.
Try to use lines and techniques to drive around/through/in conjunction with, what may seem to you, a faster but less "safe" setup. For example, work on your brake release technique if you feel the back gets too light on initial turn in. Try using a later turn in (but not nessecarily a later apex) if you get entry to mid corner oversteer, experiment with different lines, and different ways and timings on using your brake/throttle/steering inputs. Sometimes braking less hard, and using the cars momentum to "flow" or "roll" into the corner can help. Sometimes a car that is understeery on braking and initial turn in, but then real free and almost oversteery once you start really giving it lock towards the apex calls for very little steering input until you transition to that "free," sort of oversteery zone, and only then do you use the steering lock that you were holding back on entry due to the initial understeer. Depending on car/setup/tyre model/sim you can even use the front tyre scrub to help slow you down, this was common practice in the F1 2001-2006 tyre war years. It doesnt work on just any tyre though (well at least not in real life) it's more a technique to extract every last tenth of time that works only on a specific car/tyre combo. Try different things, sometimes a less safe setup is only less safe because of how you drive it, try driving that less safe setup in a way that makes it safe. Much easier said than done, but depending on a variety of factors, it can sometimes be done, but sometimes not. Sometimes the setup is just simply less safe.
Thanks for giving it a shot and posting your detailed results. Once I'm satisfied with my laps with the settings I've found more stable, I'll try tuning it back towards the default to see how things work out.
That describes my impression of the camber on the default setups of the high-powered, modern cars. Like you, I find the historics a lot of fun to drive - while I don't always have them under full control, when things start to go wrong I feel I get more feedback on my corrections.
Upgraded my T500 rim to a 330mm Momo wheel and wow... it really is like a new game for me. I had been using the GTE add-on. The bigger wheel makes a massive difference in stability and being able to catch things. This is something that doesn't get a lot of play in the sim community, but I now understand why guys run aftermarket wheels on their T500/G27s. Bigger is better.
Agree with earlier post saying that camber changes is make to evenly spread out temp on the contact patch. And camber changes shud be followed suit wif caster changes. Iinm more negative camber changes shud be followed by reduction in caster value.
