I haven't driven on ice really and agree it's a bit of an exaggeration, but the term comes up regularly in descriptions of rFactor 2's sense of feel, on this and other forums. I also enjoy the process of tuning the car, but pulling back a bit on just the default camber settings alone would make the game much more friendly to newer players, in my opinion. Not everyone's going to agree and it's almost certainly not going to be changed on existing mods, but perhaps the title of this thread and all the good info inside will help.
Are you sure? I dont want to be picky but there are a couple of things that come to mind that make me query this statement. Sorry I just have to..... 1) Drive wheels with less camber have more traction. This equals more accelleration/more power delivered. More camber equals more wheel spin and poorer corner exit speed thus poorer terminal speed on a straight if all other things are equal. Unless you are referring eg to bonneville salt flats or a straight of unlimited length. 2) Agreed that a skinnier tyre will achieve this but the same tyre on edge (with greater camber) will it really have less rolling resistance? Or will the vehicle weight and deformation/heat generation still occur just over a more limited area? This genuinely a question as Ive never heard this point made before.
I did also see this year in BTCC a front wheel drive car with what looked like at least 7 deg rear camber. It was massive.
We've been waiting since the start for it to get fixed, it's the thing that's annoying me most atm, hopefully it'll sort out some of the problems who knows. You read various opinions on the amount of spread between inner/outer temps and how the middle should be somewhere inbetween except in rF2 on some cars (historics and C6R/GTR) that's difficult (well it is for me) to achieve. The middle temps are always too high (moreso on the rears) and altering the pressure doesn't change this. Putting loads of -ve camber on is the only way to control (bodge?) this and it's no surprise the cars feel like they 're driving on overinflated tyres.
Sure about what? Less contact patch on straights means less rolling resistance, which you sort of confirmed in pt 1? Of course I am. But I didn't say anywhere it will always be a better approach... just pointed out, there are lots of things to consider when you want to set up a car.
that "More negative camber all around increase v-max a bit ". are sure it does? thats my question. I know I'm being precise but its a pretty dogmatic statement and as I sit here I'm doubting it a bit for the reasons Ive given. I'm not trying to be awkward its just ppl read all this and some one will be somewhere increasing camber to get more top speed so we owe it to them to be clear. Cheers.
I'm not sure about the outcome because i never tested things like that specially, but the logic tells me, even it depends on many other facts like front and rear drive but also every other axle variable is to taking into account here. What i can say you about is that more camber increases the resistance because the wheels tend to roll to the outside, that means you get more toe out with increasing speed, therfore more resistance, heat and wear on the inner edge. How far this is greater or lower than with a optimal trailing setup and the rolling resistance/friction is of, i really don't know, but i tend to say it is lower than extreme camber generates. edit: my suggestion is what people should stop to do is, reading any Amazone books about dynamics and setups from any amateurs or drivers they think they know what. Take books used to teach professionals not hobbyists.
Most of what makes it feel like "driving on ice" is low hardware performance coupled with default control settings that give this impression. Having run it on a fairly wide range of hardware since it came out I can tell you that, minimum fps of lower than 80 can lead to a loss of control on low speed tight turns. If you leave the default exaggerated yaw setting of 25 you will lose control on grass, getting bumped or clipping a kerb and pretty much all over the place. Why they have not changed it to zero as the default (like other gmotor sims) and let people experiment from there I do not know, lastly I find that if you do not have a slight deadzone on your steering axis (1% I use) it is very, very difficult to catch a slide, or invoke a useful drift. When you set it this way you can drive any car with any setup, and the "ice" I used to call it low gravity feeling goes away. You can "learn" to drive the car with the default control settings and drops to 25 fps, god knows I did for 18 months but you will forever be saying "oh come on, no car slides like that uncontrollably at such low speeds". There's also other things I have found (within the player folder) that improve feel but they are more subtle. Once you have these things sorted you can really feel the difference in car setups, and rubbered or green, you no longer have to imagine and wonder (or read tons of stuff about setups). I have harped on about it before but I really think the majority of the refunds and complaints are caused by the exaggerated yaw setting being 25, and unless you are familiar with gmotor sims you will not have seen that setting or realize the importance of it.... what do you tend to do with stuff you don't understand? Leave them alone! I swear I can tell the people online who have it set the default way... I drive by and think "yeah I used to lose it on that corner like that all the time too, any second now you'll snap back the other way and plough into those tyres, followed by x has left the race but their car is stored in the garage. If they just set exaggerated yaw to zero for the next build, I bet they get no refunds on new purchases.
A very valid remark imo. It's soo easy to be overlooked there in the controller settings. And when having bought a new toy, people dont want to fumble around too long and go playing right away.
Make sure you are watching the front of the grid and not the back. I have seen some weird setups from back marker teams desperate to get a good result and trying anything to do it. I remember one BTCC race a few years ago where they were using toe-in up front and it was so bad you could eyeball it from your couch! Combined with the massive amount of negative camber they were using, the car didn't look right at all and probably was the reason they were on the wrong end of the grid.
ya i think the V8s (rear wheel drive) run -5 to -6 on front & about -2 on the rear. it could be more negative now on the rear as they are using a rear transaxel now
Just tried the Spark F1 ( and few others ) with much reduced camber and it feels so much better , really nice and fun to drive now . Not bothered with rF2 for a few weeks but think that will change now .
Many things can dictate how a car responds to Camber, things from Suspension Type and action to Wheel/Tire width. My DD '95 M3 is an ex track instructors car with tons of mods all throughout the chassis (and engine etc) and it is perfectly neutral with -2.6 F / - 1.6 rear riding on 17" 245 Fronts, 255 Rears. (223k on it and I get great tire mileage) My 2004 Corvette Z06 came from the factory with under -1. I run a street track setup with -1.6 F / -1.3 R on 275 front, 295 rear tires. Both cars run near zero toe, which it how I often run in my Sims. (tiny bit up front) Vette has different suspension (Bimmer has McPherson strut up front) and much wider wheels/tires and works best with much less Camber. Watch the temp spread across the tire and front rear. Always work on mechanical grip first, then work on aero grip...
I second that one. Aero is brilliant but its like a club to beat the car onto the ground at the cost of speed. Working on mechanical grip is so rewarding. "If the only tool you have is a hammer then every problem becomes a nail" anon
Exaggerated yaw is just a visual effect, right? No doubt it effects driving either way and I'll give it a shot at '0'. But, from it's proximity to the head movement settings and it's feeling sort of like the "look ahead" function when I briefly tried it up high once, that's what it seemed like.
It's sort of the opposite... it's almost like 'look away' Depends what you're used to I guess, but I think simracers rely on audio and visual cues mainly, and if your 'head' is moving around separately to the car it makes it very difficult to judge what the car itself is doing. I know the theory is the head movement tells you what the car is doing, and maybe you can become accustomed to it, but it seems to me it'll be too lagged to be useful (by the time your view is yawing you can probably already hear tyre scrubbing etc). At least look ahead is linked to your input (the wheel) so it's probably easier to get used to it and still judge the car movement despite the extra head movement - at least I'm guessing so, I could never stand look ahead either....
Checked in at home and found my 'exaggerate yaw' already set to '0', same as 'look ahead'. When I was experimenting with it a while back, I must have determined I didn't like it.
