Sloppy behavior while fast down shifting

Discussion in 'Car Modding' started by olandese volante, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. olandese volante

    olandese volante Registered

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    Hi guys, I have a simple question: how can I prevent people from fast downshifting during braking?
    My mod allows people to do it.

    I see 2 ways to solve the problem:
    - option 1. Engine damage. It should be very gradual, leading to 1-5% damage only at each braking point when you over rev the engine. The fact is that I cannot get this setting: messing up with the engine wear values results in no wear or engine blown up in 1 braking point, no mid results...
    - option 2. Sloppy (oversteering) behavior while braking + fast shifting. How can I obtain this? Many mods have this feature but I don't know how to replicate it.

    thank you

    Edit: about option 2, is it possible that this string is the problem (too high value) ? This is a F1 mod
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  2. olandese volante

    olandese volante Registered

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    No one guys? the downshiftblipthrottle doesn't change anything
     
  3. argo0

    argo0 Registered

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    Bump.
    Can anyone help Volante with this issue? Sounds like the kind of detail we would all enjoy if done well.
     
  4. Arnao

    Arnao Registered

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    Here is what was made for gate or paddle shift. ..this is from RF1 GP79 original mods
    Maybe you can find cool info into it...
     
  5. olandese volante

    olandese volante Registered

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    My solution: I changed the ClutchTorque= from 700 to 1100, then adjusted the downshiftblipthrottle to a fair amount depending on the car behavior
     
  6. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    Have ISI create a realistic transmission/clutch model... other than that you are just trying to put lipstick on a pig.
     
  7. olandese volante

    olandese volante Registered

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    I m missing your point
     
  8. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    Then I am sorry, and can not help you. Until there is a realistic tranny/clutch model hard coded into the sim I don't see that you are going to be able to do what you want. Just my opinion.
     
  9. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    If you punish people for rushing downshifts and not driving the way you would drive a real car then your mod will never be popular. Sad but so true. Just look at how much people bitched about NAGT and EnduRacers. The two main complaints about both mods were that the rear comes around every time you brake. Really what is happening is they are rushing their downshifts and blocking the rears. IMO NAGT was one of the best rF1 mods out their but everyone hated it because it punished you too much for over driving the tires and rushing downshifts. Oh yeah and the dashboards looked really bad and you know where people normally look while racing. Hahaha
     
  10. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    That's should still no reason for a flying tail, especially with low COG, low height and stiff suspension as the most race cars have. Actually how many cars on the road are already flying around you because they have controlled synchronously, and those are mainly streetcars which shifting weight like a boat with tonns of inertia. Those cars starting slow but the impact is more brutal and suddenly when overdriving them anyway. Still don't do cars fly all over the place while the majority can't drive well. Logically much more cars should be destroyed by all those amatuers actually on the road.

    Left out driver errors but that's nonsense and more the engine is to sensitive in this point imho. Don't forget those mentioned are as well working with the ISI engine which i in it's first version never find much natural in therms of realistics. Sure it is still a great engine and by far ahead it's time but not right on every detail, and in this case it catapults weight too brutal. Probably the engine brake torque is too high in some cases, at least in it's efficiency. Don't know, but real it isn't in every situation and therefore not to generalize as standard behaviour of cars, and the more less with good race cars, not skippy's :)
     
  11. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Ah, trust me if you're doing 90mph and you are wanting to shift from 3rd to 4th and accidentally catch 2nd instead you are going to block the rears and potentially swap ends. Been there done that. I didn't go all the way around because as I was pulling it into 2nd I could tell it was resisting me (overloading the syncros) so with that little warning I was able to not fully release the clutch. But even then it was enough to block the rears for a second and send me sideways. This was in my old Infiniti G35 Sedan with a 6MT (rare, and was nearly impossible to sell). The difference in real life (talking road cars here) is people don't simply hit a button to downshift so the odds of people rushing a downshift and blocking the rear wheels is next to impossible outside of a mis-shifts. I watch people simracing and they come to a turn and just bang bang bang down as fast as they can and think the rear should just stay planted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2013
  12. olandese volante

    olandese volante Registered

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    That's exactley the problem
     
  13. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Noel, yes i know, some specific situations can do that but it's not a standard and not every car would do that and it depends. While some cars catapulting, others engine or transmission would explode by overreving by shifting gears out of rev sync. But yes i agree this shouldn't be possible without any damage but flying tails just by downshifting in general in the rev limiter, shouldn't be seen as standard and normal for every situation or car.

    I personally consider the behavior of the tails generally flawed in some situations, and one of it is the hypersensible rear brake and weight distribution of sim cars imho.
     
  14. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    True, in real life you can blow your engine or at least float some valves but if you blow an engine it is still going to block the rears. It is absolutely accurate for the rear to move if you fully block the rear wheels but not the front. The problem is not with the physics but the way the cars are driven. It just isn't realistic to go from top gear to 1st in 1 sec. You bring up a good point about blowing engines though. HistorX is the only mod I can think of that really punishes you for over reving or mis-shifting. In HistorX you can hardly do a 50min race if you flat shift the whole time let alone mis-shift. It adds a nice element to the racing.
     
  15. lordpantsington

    lordpantsington Registered

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    Those comments are interesting, I always thought NAGT shifted like F1 cars and was rather easy to drive?
     
  16. Dave Millard

    Dave Millard Registered

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    I raced NAGT with Noel, it was easy if you drove it easy, but if you pushed it it would punish you.
     
  17. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Agree, blocking rear could do that, but would that also happen if the rear didn't to much lighten up, is the question, at least not every tiny bit of overreving would cause a flying tail. Sure double shifting etc. would damage any car anyway but still than not every car would fly around. It depends on many factors, like the weight and it's distribution or slip angle, difference in load of the wheels etc.

    Still the sim cars flying to much around. The tail of rf2 is flawy in my opinion. As example as i drove one of the early builds with the Clio, honestly i really tought what is that for a crap but people where driving the car as it was normal and accept the behaviour from, while people start to adapt to this crap.

    It was the same issue as today but much more exxagerated. The car was flying around just by turning around. Way to much sensibility in weight distribution, absolutly crap. I need to laugh at that, because i do not understand how anybody can accept it as right or the more how a car physic develeoper can't realise that such a behaviour even isn't present on a street clio. I'm still laughing but ok, now we are here and still have cars with a bad rear in some situations.

    Me tends to say the weight shifting is somewhat overdone and all the load or the most of it on the rear gets lost, the more on slow speed where no downforce acts.

    I know it is not the point of you but i tought it is in context and it would fit well. Imho it's one of the most disturbing factors in rf2, and the reason why people mean rf2 has to less grip, because the rear on most of the cars, if not all, is handled incorrectly.
     
  18. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    I don't think people realize what it is like to drive a full on FWD race car. They put baseball bat sized rear ARBs on them with 900lbs/in springs in the front and 1400lbs/in sprigs in the rear. This is on a car which is around 2500lbs with driver. They have EXTREME lift oversteer. FWD road cars normally have toothpick sized ARBs in the rear with 390lbs/in springs in the front and 200lbs/in in the rear. Lets not forget that FWD cars have all the weight in the front. So putting a 1400lbs spring on a car with very little mass in the rear is going to create a ton of oversteer. Not to mention the dramatically different alignments race cars have.

    First run in a full on race car with race tires is a big eye opener.
     
  19. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Thats right and i agree with you but what i mean is not caused by any stiffness but by the dynamics and flying weight while lifting the rear to much, what results in to less pressure on the rear.
     
  20. Joel.Brown

    Joel.Brown Registered

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    Speed1 what type of race car have you driven in real life and how does it compare ?
     

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