[OT] Anyone believe that pCars will become a real sim racing game when its released?

Would you agree rF2 physics, tyres, FFB in last 2 years has been subtle changes.
Thing most noticeable to me was less grip with new rubber.
Only minor changes in some setups needed since first build too, some still as good.

I sat through a lot more builds of pCARS, and what I perceive is "feel" is just not there.
Why I should expect it will change out of sight, did iRacing upgrades transform it.

You hit the nail on the head mate not all sims can do the lot.
For mine rF2 hit the nail on the head with "feel" all other sims are pretenders ( iRacing and AC I have not tried though)
That is how plain it is to me.


I never asked for anything in rF2 but fix my mirrors and more Historic content, the rest to me is inconsequential.
Whatever they do they can't stuff the "feel".

I get people putting other sims graphics as some yardstick or balancing act, I do, but they are the same sort of people in F1 Challenge never understood why people still ran GPL.

Personally I think rF2 historic track graphics are the best looking and most complete besides the fact they have free-roam.
AC and pCARS you be driving between invisible walls forever, not getting hurled into the scenery in a ball of flames
almost killing a bunch of cows ! . lol

 

Right, Simbin was originally formed from a group of modders who created a FIA GT mod for F1C (???). They formed a company (Simbin) and Ian Bell was the "talking head".
They then put out GTR, GTL, and finally GTR2 (in that order) before Bell and most of the developers/coders left the company. They then formed Blimey Games which morphed into Slighlty Mad Studios. So these guys have proven in the past that they can deliver, hopefully they can in the future. At least for me there's plenty of room for more than one Sim. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

 

@ Durge:

I can't speak for rF2 going back that far because I first tried it in April (but got a refund), then a couple of months ago I bought it again. pCARS is developing new systems and the 2nd one (1st being FFB I believe) from recent times is the work on the tire model. So here we're talking of a completely new way of calculating everything related to tires as well as force feedback, so yes, it clearly can and will change. The feeling may still be off because of an invisible wall that caps progress but once the break through happens it should spread throughout all cars rather quickly. There's been some noticeable change there but some people may have problems noticing because there's very little difference in tire performance - under normal conditions - from a real time simulation to a pre-determined model.

rFactor 2 has the advantage on tire simulation, no doubt, but it's also understandable that it's far from final and optimized - like so many aspects of the game. FFB in rF2 is extremely detailed but I feel the existing content is letting it down, the way most cars fail to portray grip and like Empty Box mentioned, that need to constantly micromanage. That is not realistic. Driving most cars cannot be difficult, even driving at a faster pace. But driving at the limit, or very near it, in a consistent manner is the difficult bit. I've never raced anything in real life except for vast experience with go karts and having a "good touch" with regular street cars, but in a sim I really struggle to carry on that speed because of how the game portrays reality. rF2 isn't realistic as it has the potential to be and I have to strongly disagree with people who say otherwise. Part of the foundation is there but it needs great development. pCARS can only be talked about the same manner once there's a break through in the current tire model, which to be honest may not be that far away... maybe a few months? But that's just one part of it.

I'm greatly enjoying the little bit I've been exposed to Assetto Corsa as it provides me with a driving sensation that is similar to that of GSC 2013 but "next gen." I disagree with people hailing it as the greatest thing ever because it simply isn't finished yet. I don't think there's excessive grip like some claim. I do agree the F Abarth feels well planted but bar some adjustment perhaps to the power delivery or throttle response, it should be golden. That thing has 180-200hp and runs on slicks, it should offer good grip. That real life lap doesn't look too bad, maybe the driver oversteps the car's limits a couple of times and gets all squiggly but his steering corrections don't feel anywhere near being excessive especially if you're the one in the cockpit. Anyway, I digress here.

You are mixing your personal feelings and what you're looking for with what a real life portrayal is. It is perfectly fine in your opinion to have rF2 as the holy grail of racing games even at its current form. Taking rF2 graphics for example, how can you say it's the best? The core graphical bit isn't even finished, HDR stuff won't be proper until the base is correct. More on opinions, it's also fine if someone thinks Forza or Gran Turismo are the greatest driving games ever and that surpass the titles available on the PC. The problem comes with the way that opinion is expressed, as there'll always be dissenting voices - correct or not.

 

How can you add more to the FFB than exists in real life? Isn't that merely fudging the physics, which you object to?

 

Do you remember this, guys?

That last part is a clever way of excluding simulators from comparison and be able to say "THE most advanced and realistic"

The same studio is now working on pCARS. So far, development still seems more focused on graphics, than on anything else. I wonder how much can they do about physics in time remaining until release. Especially considering how much attention they paid for physics up to this point.

This game resembles Gran Tourismo, Forza Motorsport and Need For Speed: SHIFT 2 more than any other game. I believe this is actually their aim, despite their claims - to create a natural successor for NFS: Shift. Graphics and sound is their battlefield with GT and FM and they have to focus on it, at cost of physics if necessary.

 

pcars is a real sim and is being designed by simulations legends simbin. If you were a member you would see a huge physics section of the forum dedicated to the most intricate physics details, like heat transfer from the rim to the tyre, and that the physics guru is a super geek who is very passionate and dedicated to making the physics as realistic as possible.

 

pCars has nothing to do with Simbin

 

The founders of simbin like Ian Bell run pcars. The current simbin is comprised of part of the old team as well, but i think the main members formed blimey games, like Ian bell, and Doug Arno who worked on the GTR series physics. It is a hardcore sim trust me, and many of the cars are great , they are just still evolving.

 

I have trouble getting the FFB tuned in for pCars so its not the sim I play the most by a long shot, but to try and insinuate that they haven't been working on physics (tyre model etc) up to this point is laughable and ignorant of the facts. Whether you think the progress is any good is one thing, but to suggest they have not been working on it or concentrating on handling? well thats flat out false.

 

I know full well who runs SMS and who is involved. I was a member for a long time before I requested a refund due to me not liking the rate of development on the Physics and FFB side of things. It is not a hardcore sim. It is a nice looking advancement of Shift 2 aimed at the very people who believed Shift 2 was the ultimate simulator.

 

This. Even if we can't talk about what we see as member, I can say I'm really impressed. They just need time as they have the team and the money.

Edit after reading above Steve post: and don't say to them they are making a new Shift, unless you want to make them really really angry

 

pcars team is massive and full of talented people. Their rate of progression is amazing, and the level of features in their tyre model will surpass anything on the market right now and coming in the near future. it handles sliding very naturally and has a great solid feel, very similar to AC so it just needs more tweaking.

 

Oh god - Shift 2, while fun on a 360 controller, was almost undriveable with a wheel. The car would wander all over the place on the straights with no steering input. Making turns? Forget about it

Thats why I have stayed away from pCars ... i know who is making it The shift 2 people ... no thank you!

But damn - that is a pretty movie

 

PCars does not come close to reality based on my experience.

The way the cars are driven into corners, the reactions you get when playing with the throttle, the reactions you get mid corner on direction change, the sliding characteristics, the general chassis behavior, entire car frame bouncing in a weird on/off way over bumps, the way the cars grip on high speed long constant turns where you can get them in this weird understeer while keep the line of the turn in check andbarely loosing speed, I could keep on going and going and going on detailed analysis of that game.

But ya, they are doing a good job with the oversteer sliding on some cars though, but that is 1 area out of 1000000 different things you do when driving a car. It's 1 area out of 9000000 different handling characteristics involved in vehicle dynamics.

By praising physics just because the slides feel nice, is super duper duper DUPER oversimplifying vehicle dynamics simulation. There is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to racecar behavior simulation than just who can make a car slide the most natural and feel the nicest. There is a million times more to car handling physics simulation than "most natural feeling powersteer wins" mindset.

Not to mention, when you actually race, well, correcting big slides is probably what you do THE LEAST, yet in sims it's what ppl look at the most when judging what sim is the best.

People need to be analyzing more on the things you do when ou are actually taking a corner, you know, the whole point of these sims in the first place?... For example, how cars unload/load their grip as they are winding/unwinding the wheel, what is the chassis doing to the 4 corners on a quick direction change on a fast chicane, how does the entry feel when you loosen the coast diff lock, when im right near having to make a correction due to oversteer BUT I don't have to make a corrections just yet (you can feel it's about to slide anytime soon, but just not quite yet) how does the rear act at this point, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Why is it always just, "well I snap spin so the sim must suck", "well I can do nice powerslides so the sim must be amazing"? Do people actually drive and take corners and brake, and use the load transfer to their advantage to give the front that extra bit of grip and use it to get the rear to rotate just a touch around the apex phase etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Don't people do that kind of stuff and think about it? Basically do people actually think about all the things going on that makes a sim.. well...A SIM? Or does everyone just drive, turn wheel, correct powersteer, drive, turn wheel, powerslide?

Tere are 900 subjects to focus on when it comes to these sim arguments, yet all people talk about are "well this one has more natural powerslides and I feel more in control, so therefore it must automatically be the overall best simulation of taking a car through all the complexities of a corner in a high performance situation". Im sorry but this is so far off. It's just one aspect, out of sooo many areas in car handling behaviour, that the developer may have done a good job in.

Geez

 

Sales guff

Open ya eyes

lol

 

It is the BEST ?

If I do not know whats the best for me then I am a idiot.


No no no you got it all wrong


My Holy Grail would be a 1950-1960 full on "hardcore" no aids sim with all the fictional stuff taken out all together, no huds no radios no horns def no aids etc etc etc

That is all I ever wanted since GPL ?



" but but but you can turn all the aids off anyway ????? "

Still do not get it do people.

BTW I never ever said the graphics are better I was meaning they are the best for me , most realistic ........I am interested in whats others think but not to debate it.

I do not think others are wrong they like what they like
Tell me ? what is the most authentic Old spa and monza out of them all which is it ? You must have a opinion ?


Modern tracks the 3 rivals match each other imho
But in Historic rF2 rules, it has the feel and ambience, its "dirty" .......not shiny clean DX11 graphics.


I'm only interested in historics and for me rF2 is the standout all there is to it if you want to debate that is your problem
Take iRacing is not perfect, but people that like it will defy anything to be better, so they are wrong it is not the best. ?

You cant sit there and tell me I have mixed feelings and I do not know whats best for me. lol

 

I've been there, let me tell you it's not dirty now and I can't imagine it being any different 45 years ago. I don't want a game to apply an image filter to emulate the broadcast image quality of back in the day either. Anyway, as you said, no more debate.

 

SMS are very talented, but pCars is just a much better Shift, and there's nothing wrong with that. Too bad, 'cause M3 is great fun.

 

I chipped in early to pcars as I really liked the idea of the project etc but since day one till today I cannot get to grips with it. Sure it looks pretty, has a neat range of cars/tracks but the driving for me is just wrong. I can't put my finger on it but it really does feel like Shift evolved. (even though they said no code from shift was used - I find hard to believe).

I've left my money in the pot for now hoping one day it will wow me but I don't believe that day will ever come. They had a very clever marketing strategy fund the game from pc gamers to ultimately build a console game. Not saying that's right/wrong but I don't think we will ever see a real Sim as some claim.

The great thing now is that there is choice for everyone. iRacing, rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, pCars, Gamestock Car etc etc. Hopefully the choice will drive development on all products.

 

they could emerge their success in making the sim in the future: Rfactor ffb, combined physics from ISI and AC, AC UI and pcars graphics and finally combined content from all of them and of course all the features that these games has... now that would be something.