A good analysis of grip: rFactor 2 vs iRacing.

True true - but it is still good enough to make the skippy driveable (finally)

 

Yup, Im talking about the new one, its a nice improvement, and in the proper direction in my opinion. The general characteristics are still not overall as good as the RFactor 2 version though, however, like all sims, it has it's points where it's better than others, as every sim (mostly ones of different engines) has its strong and weak points relative to other sims, but overall the RFactor 2 version is still the best, in my opinion.

I think that the fact that the RFactor 2 skippy, being a pretty much brand new car from ISI, was (and still is) better "out of the box", than the IRacing skippy which has been, and is still being worked on by IRacing for literally like 7 years, shows just how much potential and correct the core foundations are of the ISI RFactor 2 physics engine. Honestly think about it, how many years and years, and updates and updates has the IRacing skip barber recieved, then RFactor 2's first time attempt comes out and already blows it out of the water? With the NTM5 the gap is closer, but still, its a brand new version of RFactor 2's car vs like a 7 year in development IRacing car with like 50 physics updates over the years, and RFactor 2's version still wins? Not to mention the 7 years of development ON TOP OF the large budget of IRacing, on top of the massive amounts people pay to play it relative to just about any other game/sim, yet RFactor 2, in its very young frist attempts still beats IRacing?? Not sure if its just really sad on IRacings part, or a great achievment on RFactor 2's/ISI's part (or both).

Although I wasnt the biggest fan of overall iracing physics, and still am not (although it is improving, but then again, what sim isnt improving, its 2013), I have to say, the Skippy has always been perfectly driveable for me, even as of the first version from like 2007 or 2008 or whaatever it was.

 

My mistake not to specify i was talking about fast open wheel cars, which are the only one i have some information to give my opinion, i didn't play much to skippy so i can't tell. But i keep saying i see cars going out of track at imposibles speeds, jumping chicane kerbs like a 4x4, and recovering from impossible spins, things i have never seen on real F1, gp2, etc... ending with a good lap time instead of out of the track. I would be ok on a rally car.
Of course there are lot of variables: balanced setup, tire wear, mod, track, driver, real road, etc... its just the felling that i have.

 

OK, I see. Just to be clear, I was talking about the F2, which is a pretty fast open-wheel car. I've been driving that a lot and racing it in the R2P series so I'm pretty familiar with it. The guys beating me (and I've finished 2nd and 3rd so far) aren't doing the things you're talking about, but I do understand you might be saying you can get away with doing that stuff too easily. You may be right. I always find it very difficult to judge just what one should or shouldn't be able to get away with, as I know we've all seen some pretty amazing things in real motorsport if we've been watching long enough.

So yeah, rF2 isn't perfect, just as any simulation isn't, and maybe you can get away with things you shouldn't at times, but I don't see those things being a factor in people going faster than me over a single lap or a race distance online. I just don't, and I'd be the first to say if I did because I have next to zero tolerance for that stuff after so many years. To be honest I was racing in a GSC event earlier today and while I love that sim's physics, being beaten by people who are sliding around and overdriving lap after lap is pretty hard to take after getting used to racing rF2 online. I would agree that that sort of thing does still work too well in rF2 compared to real life, but I certainly don't see any other sim that handles it better.

Hopefully ISI will continue to push towards things like blistering and graining, and then I can't even imagine how much crying will ensue.

 

I agree, rf2 is the best i have drive in this sense. Since i havent drive iracing i can not say how good it is in this same topic, but iracing has other tools to get rid of this "overdriving" that rf2 don't have, so it needs to be more strict. I'd like to see some more crying

I have tried race2play for a year when i was starting with rf2, but there were not much open wheel events for it, and finding a league is a bit painful, i might be missing something there.

 

It sure has. And interesting that it took the experts (and I mean that sincerely) at iRacing how many YEARS to get a Skippy that feels authentic the way the rF2 one did out of the box?

 

Its something i mentiouned in the camaro thread as well, even i don't agree with everything, it's something they know how to do. The cars are never crap on first release but that doesn't change anything on the slow mo dev process.

 

Just finished an epic race over there in the modern Formula 2. You might want to check it out again. Here's the current series link: http://www.race2play.com/schedule/show/1858

 

Skippy regional is actually one of rf2's best cars, if you're having trouble driving it......

1....don't overshoot on the brakes
2....be at the ready to control the rear with the throttle
3....careful on medium-high speed change of direction

You should then be able to control it, which is all I ever ask of a sim/car.

 

Mr Unbiased.

At some point you have to come clean and either accept that people who've been sim racing for YEARS, and who're critical of certain cars/aspects have merit, or simply admit to the belief that only a select few can drive beyond 5% or whatever you think determines the chosen ones.

The 60F1 is botched under throttle whereby a small measured amount of throttle is interpreted as something like 50-70% throttle input, on top of how atrociously bad it both over and understeers{especially at high speed circuits}.

There's also the modern F2 which is one of the worst sim cars I've ever driven.

 

I have quite the opposite experience. In rF2, I gain a lot by driving smooth and keeping the car just under the limit.

Could you be more specific?
It's a bit hard to believe that a simracer, whatever his virtual experience is, would make a better judgement of the car than actual F2 champion, who tested it.

If it would really be something that bad, I reckon Luciano would say something about it. It took me 20-30 laps to adapt to F2 car in rF2, but once I did, I was able to push harder with every lap, getting early on throttle in those long turns at Palm Beach. Very satisfying and I rarely had the opportunity to drive this "early on throttle" style in older simulators. And that is something you often see drivers aim at in real world. While many simracers look for advantage during trailbraking, real drivers seem more focused on corner exit.
This was always my driving style and with rF2 it's actually working as it should.

 

Everyones an expert....

 

F2's FFB sux, so I'm not going to try and adapt to a broken car.
Every sim/game has professionals who say this or that, and it's also the case that many sims feel/drive differently, as such the last people I'll ever listen to are paid pro's.

 

Another Spinelli?
Spinelli believes{but keeps denying} that some sim cars are beyond mere mortals capabilities.

 

no no, I was just saying, everyones an expert. 90% of the time everyone thinks their right even if all opinions are different. That's what makes it all so hard imho

(I'm not saying you or him are wrong, btw)

 

Paid pro's? From what I remember, Tim said something like they had contractual problems with Luciano or with the Nurburgring GP he was driving on, so they couldn't really do much with it in terms of advertising.
Now Lewis Hamilton giving piles of praise for the latest Codemasters F1 game...yeah, I'm with you...

Anyway, I'm sure I've seen explanations for the F2 FFB in this forum, something to do with a lack of power steering, crazy caster angles, and the way it interacts with the camber when turning. Something which gives it that odd feeling and tendancy to pull the wheel inwards. Plus not wanting to clip peoples FFB from default.


In terms of a car being beyond mortals...do you mean topping the grids and races or something? Because I've seen a few people label the high downforce, open wheeler cars unrealistic in the way they brake..."these lock up way too much, way too unreal and you never see that as much in real life"
Now, they have the capability to complete laps, but are they going to be right at the pointy end? No. That to me is what Spinelli is going on about, being able to easily get to that last few "percent" of the cars/tyres ability. Which is the reason for so many Clio and Megane races it seems XD
I admit that I struggle with F1 cars. It takes me a long time to fully get myself used to everything the car is doing and they way to drive them. As in like a whole weekend or two, on one track, driving nothing else. With enough time and dedication, pretty much everyone can improve. But some will just always have that something extra. And if you are looking at the way the car is driving for you, and the laptimes you set vs. the super alien guy, then you just might put the issue with the car and game, not the other way round. Just saying.

Finding the 60's cars understeery and oversteery? You are looking at the bloody 60's...piss all downforce, sometimes lift, old treaded tyres, a super-light car and a lot of power.

Seems like each car is being compared to another totally unrelated car by you. If I remember correctly, you very much like the F3000 car in Race07. Now, does any of that experience change when you see the Simbin guys actually admitting there were some pretty interesting physics issues in those titles? (GTL, GTR2, RACE, etc)
I'm trying to find the comments made by Jay Ekkel (I think it was him) where he said things weren't that great as people seem to make it out to be. I remember the aliens running setups with everything damper and spring related tuned to max stiffness, and were able to churn out stunningly quick laps with no effect on their tyres at all.

 

Yes it was Jay Ekkel on VirtualR who said that. Its the same as paid driver, why he said that ? May because the main team isn't SimBin anymore, or because it was not the own engine ?

 

Clearly it is isn't it ...or maybe he is just being honest about things and how people were commenting about how much they loved GTR2 and said it was THE best sim around, even now. Besides, the company Simbin still owns the IP on those titles...as they demonstrated with the GMT hoohah. You could be right though, it could be to boost the sales of RRE and put an end to the chart topping amount of sales that GTR2 is still making to this day...wait....

Or maybe we just have to turn anything anyone says into some sort of "they were paid or have motive to say that" type thing XD

 

Sometimes business make things necessary and sometimes it tuns humans to something else. The truth behind words and doing knows just the prayer himself.

 

I'm usually quite critical with iRacing, however such things are hard to judge, maybe the tire model that they are trying to make is way more complex than rF2 ... which doesn't necessary mean it's better, but might explain the slow development.