AI Thoughts

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by C3PO, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    Couple of observations about the AI: the generally perform really well and manage to avoid first corner collisions very well even in tightly packed groups (maybe too well!). I noticed the AI is dabbing the brakes in a machine gun manner into the corner, wonder if that can be mitigated. A slightly bigger issue is the ease at which the AI's pace improves when they are a fair way ahead of you already. It's almost impossible to catch them up again. Fine when you're boxing'n'coxing near the start, but then their pace improves a lot.
     
  2. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Is it possible that the AI improvement is from their tires warming up to operating temps as well as their brakes? It does normally take 2 to 4 laps to get everything up to temp to run your best times.
     
  3. Blue fellow

    Blue fellow Registered

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    Personally I'm very happy with the AI in this game. I rarely get in a collision where it was the AI's fault, and when it is, a lot of times it's that grey area where you can't really blame it on one driver easilly. Maybe at times the AI come across as too sterile at times, but hey, better than having crashes.
     
  4. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    I'm also very pleased with the AI in rF2... it is the best AI ever seen in a racing game, and by far.

    I'm also with blue fellow here, hardly ever crash with the AI, and when it does, it's hardly their fault, but mine trying to push too hard, or me not having 3 monitors or 3d, and playing with 30 fov for realistic experience, no mirrors because I got enough of the bottom crowded with the gauges, don't need the arcadish mirrors up top.. so I try to use as much left/right/back look, but sometimes I can collide.

    Also regarding the AI improving their laps, it's only normal behavior... not only because of the tires/brakes reaching optimal operating temperature, but also because you would expect someone to drive faster as laps goes by..

    In your case, it seems the AI is set a bit too high, try lowering it a bit, say by 5-7%, and try again. You can also try to increase laps, or reduce # of AI, in order for you to have a better chance at the 1st position.

    Once you are confortable and the AI seems almost too easy, increase it again by 3-5% and improve yourself some more...

    Many times the AI seems like very skilled human players... and I like it... at other times, in certain corners, they look like AI a bit... but fortunately, that doesn't seems to happen much.

    Some thing I noticed tho recently while driving more at night, they seems to get out of their line when you are close behind.. probably to simulate a human driver trying to see something with the reflection in his windshield... however, when they dash to the side, they hardly care if you are coming, even if they are in their line, and you are coming on the left or right, it just happened to me while I was racing Silverstone, a race starting at 3:30am, for the early birds! :)

    Check you the level of aggression, at 50% it's a bit too much... they will often play unfair, trying too much to pass you, forcing you to race almost perfect.

    At 25%, the AI will rarely touch you, expect in times where you brake way too early, and too hard.

    At 1%, they will hardly ever hit you, but they will almost let you pass as well :) j/k, but they stay too much behind, almost never trying to pass!
     
  5. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Playing with the aggression of the AI is definitely something that you should do to get them to where you like their behavior. Yes at times they might appear to be too aggressive, but that is racing isn't it? Work with that and the AI strength and you should end up with a decent experience unless you are on a mod track that the AI hasn't be done right on, then you are on your own. ;)
     
  6. Old Hat

    Old Hat Registered

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    Well, I disagree with some of the above.

    I've been racing them at 100% strength and aggression and starting at the back and it's actually far too easy (if you want to) to overtake them by dive-bombing or generally squeezing between them and the curbs. They just swerve away from you to avoid contact. At 100% aggression they should really exercise their rights and take the racing line. If you do something stupid, then there should be a collision and it would be your fault. As it is, they're behaviour in that regard is about right for 30-40% aggression, IMO.

    However, they combine that passiveness with some very aggressive moves like swapping lanes in the braking zone to stop you getting alongside before the turn-in, and even swerving right across you. That's borderline mad (nothing much you can do when your threshold braking and a car suddenly appears in front of you), but arguably OK for 100% aggression, I suppose. Some of the defensive moves they do before the braking zone are very good; you can feint inside and they'll cover that line etc.

    The trouble is that they often attempt to dive-bomb you from several car lengths back and on realising it's not going to work, swerve out of it (which is an improvement as they used to take you out), but it's completely counter-productive as they get left behind every time they do it.

    They also still have a tendency to go inexplicably slowly in the middle of some corners. I keep rear-ending them whereas I barely can remember ever rear-ending a human.

    They're OK, you can definitely have a good race with them. The important thing is that they shouldn't be too predictable as that will get old, fast.
     
  7. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    AI leaves a lot to be desired. They are far too slow on the opening laps, block far too much or never attempt a pass (aggression setting) and quite clearly do things that should not be possible amongst other things. It's a mile better than rF1, but not even close to pCars, let alone the two titles with the best AI in a racing game ever, GP4 and NR03.

    First of all, make sure you run a Q session, as that should get the fast drivers in the race up front and the slow drivers in the back. This was more an issue in rF1, but it still helps in rF2 heaps. That will really help with them being uber slow on the opening laps, though they still are tremendously slow.

    They "work", they can be "raced" with and trusted to not be complete morons that will act like you dont exist at all (unlike rF1), but leave a lot to be desired. They brake so absurdly early (even at highest difficulty!) they are zero challenge to pass, yet somehow will outbrake you with ease when they "decide" to pass. I've seen some moves the AI pulled off that I would have thought there was no chance in hell anyone would make stick considering I was outbraking them by 20m, yet somehow magically have work. Then the next lap they brake early again.

    They have gotten less collision happy in recent builds, but still don't race in a realistic manner because of their block happy / non passing tendencies. Aggression is really finnicky. Though I will say - I don't think I've ever seen the AI block and have it actually work. lol

    Biggest issue for me is cars slowing down when you get right behind them. Close up really close at the apex, often times the AI just simply put won't accelerate. They just don't go. At all. By themselves, they behave fine, take a line you would expect, but get close and they put it in park - making for an exceptionally easy pass.

    Not sure how possible this would be to implement, but I'd like to see some more menu sliders ala pCars, so things are easy and clear to tweak to find the behavior you want in an easy fashion. Maybe the ability to save those settings per series (as obviously it varies between car types heavily).

    It's okay, but it's a far cry from a really good experience.

    I think it's a product of the AI flipping out when another car is close to them. On the start they are all packed up, so they go slower all over until they get it sorted out. If you want a demo of this, do a race with 6 AI cars, then one with 36. With 36 AI they take a huge amount of time to get sorted and spend a hilarious amount of time just going slow.

    I wonder if single file starting would help? Does rF2 have a switch for that somewhere?
     
  8. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    Thanks everyone - excellent points here. Regarding the AI slowing down into corners, that is real life behaviour too. Alonso did it at Silverstone to back up another driver hunting him down and Vettel likes to do it occasionally too to force a slower exit of the car behind.
     
  9. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    I don't race often the AI but when I set them that good that I can't win even with a perfect performance.
    When I end up somewhere in the midfield at the end of the race they are very very good to race with.
     
  10. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    Not to the degree rF2 AI does it, they will slow down after they started accelerating, all you do is just go up the inside and laugh at them.
     
  11. pemigris

    pemigris Registered

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    The AI in rF2 is faaar better than that in iRacing ;) SCNR
     
  12. DriverN1

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    compare AI in rF2 with AI in pCars .. you will be surprised :)
     
  13. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    The way we see AI quality may depend on how fast and good drivers we are. Alien drivers may consider AI to be too slow when the rest of us can have good fights with them.
     
  14. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Either way, they just don't get off the grid unless you create gaps by booting half of them, and they do freak out as soon as another car is looking at them funny. They remind me of F355 Challenge in a way, where they would jump into the grass to let you through. XD
     
  15. DriverN1

    DriverN1 Registered

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    "AI too slow" never been a problem. raise "difficult settings" to MAX, raise "AI Corner Grip Usage", "AI Brake Power Usage" in PLR and they will beat every alien :D
     
  16. pleclair

    pleclair Registered

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    Well, I dunno what's an alien driver, never heard the term before, but I take it relates to a very good driver?

    I'm not the best driver around, but I can certainly hold my ground, and got a few records on rf2rank on different tracks/cars.

    I usually race in between 103-110% AI, at 25% aggression.

    The most common problem I see with the AI is them flipping over in quite a few turns... other than that, they are pretty good overall... sure they do have some awkward moments, but we do too :)

    I haven't seen pCars AI, but I take it is Shift 2 AI, improved...

    Shift 2 AI was pretty good... but they felt like AI controlled cars, where as in rF2, they feel like human drivers most of the time.

    But Shift 2 AI was good until you got to 1st... then they sucked... and I played at the most difficult setting with no assist.

    I would have loved to try pCars, but I learned about it too late. I will probably end up getting it someday, but highly doubt it will replace rF2, for me anyway. The gameplay of rF2 can't be beaten... at this point, it's hard to think ISI could improve FFB further for rF3 :p

    EDIT: lol wanted to post a video of me racing AI at mid-ohio, difficulty was set to 106 or 110, can't remember which, was playing with different tracks that night, and different difficulty.



    This was a heavy grid, I didn't booted anyone, and the race goes just fine for me :)
     

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