C6R setup for RF2 Demo player ( alien-like setup )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Morgan Morand, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. Morgan Morand

    Morgan Morand Registered

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    Maybe the combinaison of high caster/low front camber.
    and the inverse, low caster and high front camber makes the steering wheel very light.

    Atm i'm using 100% FFB and 2x multiplier filtering to 0 with a G27, and it is still alive even with a huge amount of time in Rfactor2 ( 5/6 hours per week since the beta release + rfactor ). of course the rattle is annoying but don't destroy in 10min the steering wheel. the "sharp rumbles" mentioned before is a issue from openwheeler mod. with the GT it's a lot smoother.
    About low speed corner grip issue. Iracing is the worst : no response in FFB, ffb still light etc but a lot of guys are playing it... After, the low speed corner grip with a high rubbered track is gone...
     
  2. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    @ Morgan Morand - Your joking right??? It maybe a base setup however this has some pretty major flaws and can hurt your lap time by easily 5 seconds and destroy your tyres in the process. Did you set this up by feel or do some proper data analysis? I am guessing by feel as the numbers don't stack up. I don't normally give out setup secrets or buy into this sort of thread as setups are so subjective however this has to be said...

    Here are the major flaws:

    GENERAL

    1. Brake Map - Should be raised to gain more braking stability as the C6 can be difficult to pull up under heavy breaking loads.
    2. Brake Bias - Needs to be moved more rearwards as there are large front wheel rotation speed drop-off spikes indicating lockup.
    3. Brake Duct - For a base setup this should not be set to minimum of 1.
    4. Diff Lock - Coast % set way to high which invokes large amounts of corner entry understeer.
    5. Diff Lock - Preload is way to low and considering how many people complain they cant get the power on smoothly but I can understand this as your coast % is very close to that of your power %.

    SUSPENSION

    Front

    1. Front Dampers - Front Bump & Rebounds should generally not equal each other and looking into your damper velocity data your RF bumb has more velocity than your rebound which shouldn't be the case.
    2. Front Tyre Temp - To high, after 3 laps they have already exceeded 200kpa.
    3. Front Camber - -0.5 is way off the mark & together with high front tyre temps has only led to way to much centre tyre temps with no correct tyre heat transfer from inner to outer.

    Rear

    1. Rear Dampers - Rebound should be stronger than bump and setting them to minimal compared to front dampers is to low as damper velocity is to weak and unbalanced.
    2. Rear Tyre Temps - 209kpa is ridiculously high, at peak performance a tyre should be 200kpa and this is already 9kpa up before exiting the pits.
    3. Rear Camber - -3.0 is to high for base setup.

    ADVANCED

    1. Caster - Maxing out the caster to 8deg for a base setup, I am guessing to gain stability is just wrong. This just leads to mass understeer in slow tight corners and oversteer in fast corners.
    2. Toe - Front & Rear toe angles are to aggressive and are like this to compensate for setup flaws.

    Also "Atm i'm using 100% FFB and 2x multiplier filtering to 0" + 8deg caster would invoke FFB clipping. Read this. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/9878-Changing-FFB-Strength-Will-Make-You-a-Better-Driver

    Fellow drivers, please do your homework before people inaccurately lead you down paths like so.

    Cheers

    mm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  3. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    I think you might want to understand what the point of the setup is before you come off as obnoxious and arrogant. FYI.
     
  4. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    I am not trying to be, just reporting the facts. I don't like how people who are just getting into sim racing can be easily misled by poor advice. Morgan has said this is his best setup and I dont think others should copy this direction as it opens up a range of other problems. Alot of people are bagging rF2 & C6 when really they shouldn't be. The car is fine if you know what you are doing.
     
  5. realkman666

    realkman666 Registered

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    Exactly, "Know what you're doing or GTFO, we don't want you here." The future of sim racing. :D
     
  6. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    I am no pro & we all start somewhere. Everyone is welcomed. Just put the time into your homework rather than copying others problematic setups. Seek advice which can be somewhat limited and contradictory but first understand what you are seeking. Eliminate as much guess work as you can.
     
  7. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    You are assuming that rFactor2 setup logic corresponds to that in real life. I'm sorry but it doesn't. For example the tire contact path hasn't even been modeled properly yet in rF2 (update coming), which makes tire pressure not work the way it's supposed to. I would not look much at all into center tire temperature readings at this point. Regarding the rest of the settings, most top drivers in rF/rF2 set up their car based on feel. There is very little logic in how some settings like dampers work in rF/rF2. This is based on my (and others') experiences of driving at top level in FSR (www.formula-simracing.net) for 7 years.
     
  8. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    @ Stonec - I get your point however I will still trust the data and lap times and tyre wear don't lie ;) I know about the tyre temp issue and have also raised threads. I disagree with your thoughts on dampers and I find them essential for fine tuning your setup.

    This is why I generally don't buy into these discussion. Just trying to help the new guys with some alternative info.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  9. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    As do I. Many people understand how weight transfer and balance are important but don't realise the dampers control this. For example, early brake lock up may be brake pressure, tyres, track condition etc. but often it's cos the dampers are too stiff and the transfer of weight is too rapid.
     
  10. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    Bold, sorry for OT.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2013
  11. Morgan Morand

    Morgan Morand Registered

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    Your comment is just a trolling but i will reply to you

    1) The brake map is to 0 because i do the "heel and toe" technique ( without using clutch ) a technique of real GT drivers. so the rear tyres don't block caused by the gearbox blocking.
    2) I don't have any issue of front tyre blocking. maybe you are too agressive. I change the brake bias during the lap ( a bit more at rear for the braking in fast corner but still 61/49. It can be more at the rear but we need to change all the brakemap/differencial setup )
    3) Put more of 1 isn't needed. You have a extra downforce on the front of the car and for silverstone for example, we don't wear out a lot the brakes and it's enough for 20min stint testing.
    4) Coast blocks waving in the braking and can help to have a better traction in exit leaving a tight corner.
    5) less preload ( 10nm for example ) vs high preload makes the car smoother in acceleration.
    6) Camber/Caster/Toe/tyre pressure in setup :

    For the moment, for information for the several mod i use ( F camber : R camber ) :
    F2 : -2.5:-1.7
    F1 isi : -3.0 : -1.1
    GT1 : -3.0 : -2.0
    it depends of the chassis of the car and the tyre structure and driving style. ATM a high pressure stabilize the car in high speed ( which is true also in real life ) but with the c6R, the sidewall of the actual tyre are too soft and when the car bears on it, there is too much heigh difference.
    Second. As your are a great setup maker, you know that toe in is joined to the camber, so there is not exceptional that a high camber at rear makes a high toe in at rear when the front camber is less inclined

    You will make crazy the BMW WTCC engineer when you see the BMW WTCC car have a lot of negative camber at the rear and high toe in when the front tyre is really right. So this isn't exceptionnal....

    View attachment 8545

    For the high caster. How good you are in the setup that you don't even know that a high engine brake, high coast, high caster, harder front dampers compared to the rear enables to brake and in the same time sliding the rear attacking a low speed corner

    Now, make a new troll mr good setup. Good bye.
     
  12. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Well, an evening spent learning Silverstone with the Corvette was made easier thanks to that setup Morgan, thanks muchly :) I last drove it in Toca 2...and it wasn't this layout XD
    With your base setup I lowered the rear wing and dropped camber to -2.5. It seemed to work better for me then, dunno why.

    I found it such a tricky track to nail. Can do lap after lap with a consistent time, but then I try pushing a bit and I find some sectors so much quicker, to then lose it all somewhere else on the lap, while nothing seemed too out of the ordinary. Ah well, more practice. Guess you only need to drop a few kms on the fast sweepers or be a tiny bit off line.

    Fastest lap is 2:01.820, and that was showing at one point something like -.3 at the split times. Grah XD
     
  13. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    "1. Brake Map - Should be raised to gain more braking stability as the C6 can be difficult to pull up under heavy breaking loads."

    Lower numbers give more engine braking. (I assume it is the same for all cars, it is in the FISI)
     
  14. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    For me the C6 is simply the worst car in rfactor2 by a large margine! it's incredible how the car spins around even in 3° gear! it doesn't give me any confidence out of the corners!
    I did a decent time at Silverstone(2'03) but the car has a lot of flaws with the physics and ffb!
     
  15. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Weird. I know it's subjective, but I found this evenings driving with it to be absolutly brilliant in both the driving and FFB. Something has changed with the car and build updates or something. Started slow, got used to what the throttle and brakes require and how to drive it, and it felt as steady as. On a green track with the standard setup, yeah it gets hairy.

    Someone posted some form of dyno reading for a big racing corvette at one point (im guessing not the same as this one), and you can kinda see why it can be a handful. So much torque, and such a flat spread starting from way down in the revs.
     
  16. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I didn't say it's undrivable, because it is drivable, but I don't simply feel the car!
    I have more confidence and fun driving the F2 than the C6!
     
  17. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Cool.. Post your ffb settings. Profile and ingame. Becasue for me C6r feels awesome. I feel everything and same as Minibull since some updates to the car itself and few new builds I feel this car everywhere. Even the smallest slide is there in the ffb for me.
     
  18. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    How do you know optimal tire pressures?

    Besides the FFB comment, which is probably right (clipping), the only thing that I can say is that setups made by feel are always better than "theoretical/real life based setups" done with Motec and so. Btw, have you even tried the setup?
     
  19. TrackToorist

    TrackToorist Registered

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    Hi Morgan! Can you share some good setup for FR3.5, please? Because after last update it has become very difficult to drive them
     
  20. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Content or build update?
     

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